We've all had this experience at some point, I'm sure. You meet somebody, and sure enough, on first glance, you can see absolutely nothing extraordinary or special about that person. In fact, the only traits that stand out at first are flaws - a slight weight problem, an episode with acne, geeky glasses, whatever. But then, almost by accident, you begin to pick up on little positives - a nice smile, a good sense of humor, a general good demeanor towards life, etc. You still see the negatives, but even then, you begin to realize that they are integral in the shaping of the person, and perhaps, even to a certain (even large) extent, are an actual positive in the full context of that person (not to mention that, since we all have flaws ourselves, the flaws in others help us to see the other as that much more human, which in turn makes the positives that much more appealing). And then the next thing you know, before you realize it, that gangly, ugly person becomes the love of your life (or, at least, of the next couple of months).
For me, no musical group has come closer to that description than Genesis. Upon first listen to the group, my impressions were as follows - a somewhat hoarse, okayish singer; some decent, but not very impressive 'generic prog' guitar solos; use of mellotrons and synthesizers in a mostly, again, 'generic prog' vein. But that, my friends, is why one must NEVER EVER EVER judge a group or an album or a song after one listen. Because that album, my first Genesis album, Selling England by the Pound, is now my favorite progressive rock album, hands down. And not only that, but Genesis is a very, very close second to Yes as my favorite progressive rock group overall, and even then I have my doubts (not to mention that Genesis' pop peak was also higher than Yes' pop peak).
Now don't get me wrong - Genesis' flaws are fairly obvious, and not the easiest thing to ignore. Essentially, Genesis' biggest problem in its art-rock days was that, quite frankly, they kept shooting themselves in the foot again and again as far as reaching a mass audience goes. What do I mean? Well, simply that progressive rock is, in general, a very tough nut to crack as far as enjoyability goes, and if there's not much there to 'keep one's mind entertained' while it's trying to wade through the musical essence, one can be bored very easily (the sad truth is that, with pretty much every Genesis album except for Lamb, my initial listen produced a reaction of disappointment and "huh, well, I guess this will be where I stop being part of the Genesis bandwagon." Even today, when I love Genesis and like or love listening to most of their albums, there are more than a few times when I find myself wondering, "Man, why on earth do I like this goofy music so much?"). In other words, even if you're feeling a bit perplexed about the lengthy song structures of, say, Fragile, you can still focus on the bitchin' bass lines or the menacing piano solo in the middle of South Side of the Sky. Genesis didn't really do that, though, as they attempted to let the music mostly speak for itself without engaging in too many hyper-wanky guitar solos (and even the solos are incredibly well-thought out but, again, not very impressive on first listen).
And OH did the music speak for itself. Their song structures were incredibly complex, but most importantly, they were song-structures, and not just a setup for extended jamming. They wrote their songs (as opposed to just jamming them out - not that they didn't use jams as a way to come up with ideas, but the final product almost always had the "dross" sorted out), and almost always made sure to efficiently pack in as much as they could into every second without overwhelming or losing the listener. And in that respect, nobody, NOBODY could beat Genesis in their hey-day - not even Yes, as much as I adore them.
But wait! It got better! Not only did Genesis have some of the most perfect progressive compositions imaginable, they also had an edge over every other 'pretentious' group in existence - the most fascinating, most entertaining and most entrancing (at least, much of the time) lyrics this side of ... umm ... EVERYBODY!!! And more importantly, they had Peter Gabriel to sing them (and in a large number of cases, to write them, which was good since virtually all of the best lyrics came from Peter in the first place). I will say this - Peter does not sound like anybody I've ever heard, and if you can't adjust to him, you might not like it. He doesn't have the voice of a choirboy, like Justin Hayward or Greg Lake. He doesn't sound like an ethereal being from another dimension, like Jon Anderson. He doesn't sound like Frank Sinatra, like Jim Morrision or, ... er... Frank Sinatra. But non-standard in no way means bad, not in this case - after all, Peter has probably become my favorite vocalist of all. His voice is so unbelievably rich that it continues to take me aback to this day. I have never, ever heard a singer so unbelievably full of expression and emotion - for lack of a better term, he sucks the listener in in a big, big way, causing even the strangest lyrics to completely come to life, and to make the listener a part of that song's world and to feel for all involved. I could go on for hours about Peter's strengths (especially his ability to evoke strong religious overtones without becoming a boring, preachy 'Christian rocker'), but I won't, as there are other members of the band, after all.
Next in line of people in the band I absolutely adore is Steve Hackett. Steve didn't really have a lot of chances to shine in the group, and I wouldn't exactly say his overall contributions to the band could be considered "immediately satisfying," if you get me. He was a minimalist, and the combination of this and being in a band centered around keyboards was kind of fatal as far as giving Steve the "starring role" goes. Plus, it took him a little while to assert himself fully as a crucial creative force in the band, and there are a lot of stretches where he's not exactly prominent. Still, he was a marvelous support guitarist whenever he was asked to play that role, providing solid texture and all manner of side effects, and pretty much whenever he was given the chance to shine he made the most of it. I continue to think that most of the most impressive band-defining and emotionally devestating moments of the band come when Steve is featured (The Musical Box, Dancing with the Moonlit Knight, Firth of Fifth and ESPECIALLY the parts at the end of Supper's Ready all come to mind). Alas, though, he left in '77, when he'd largely outgrown the role the band had carved out for him over the years.
Ok, next in line is the most controversial among most people (including myself, to an extent) - Phil Collins. Like most people, I cannot stand the 'solo-Collins' style - when working in the backroom of Meijer in 2000 and 2001, I would hear at least two or three Phil Collins songs a shift, and if I ever hear "You'll be heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere in my heeeaaaaaarrrrrrt" again, I just might go postal. Nor am I a big fan of his vocals, at least not at first; while the band could have made a worse choice for Peter's replacement in '75, as Phil does sound similar to Gabriel when both are belting in full force, his ability to change expression mid-song was virtually non-existent (especially when compared to, again, Gabriel), and he's just not able to master the subtle nuances that made Peter so great. That being said; I do think that Phil was a good singer for a large number of Genesis' 'poppy' songs (he sounded quite nice once he started singing more aggressively in the 80's); I don't totally blame him for 'ruining' Genesis by turning it into a pop band (though I do blame him a bit for making Genesis indistinguishable from his solo work there at the end); as a backing vocalist to Peter, he couldn't be beaten; and most of all, HIS DRUMMING WAS FRIGGIN' AWESOME. Seriously, if you, the reader, have never heard any pre-drum machine Genesis, you need to pick some up just for the shock value of discovering what an unbelievably talented musician Phil Collins was (and probably is) behind a drum kit. But even as far as drum machines go, Phil was, like it or not, one of the pioneers of its use and one of its more intelligent implementers - along with a couple of solo Gabriel tunes (especially Family and the Fishing Net), the drum programming on Mama is some of the most brilliant I've ever heard.
Ok, moving on, we have bassist/acoustic-and-occasional-electric-guitarist Mike Rutherford. He's contributed his good share of great tunes to the Genesis canon, and while he's certainly no virtuoso, he gets the job done, and occasionally contributes some very interesting lines. His greatest strength, actually, was his versatility - the band really didn't miss a step when Steve left thanks to Mike's guitar skills (though they're much more generic than Steve's). That being said - if you really want to blame somebody for Genesis becoming a largely generic pop band, Mike should not be totally absolved. After all, who did you think the Mike in Mike and the Mechanics was?
Finally, there's keyboardist Tony Banks. In a lot of ways, Genesis was Tony's band more than anybody else's. His keyboards were the center of the band's sound, he contributed a lot to the overall songwriting, and he set the band's direction through much of its life. Unfortunately, while he certainly deserves credit for a LOT of the things that make me like Genesis (honestly, for all of the odd irritation that the remaining 15% still provides me, I heartily endorse about 85% of Tony's total contribution to the band, and I acknowledge that I probably wouldn't even care that much about that 15% if the 85% wasn't so great), he also ends up as the source of a lot of the things that still annoy me about the band. The first is that, while he wrote some texts through the years that I find quite nice, I tend to find Tony to be a pretty horrendous lyricist. As a lyricist, he comes across as somebody who tries hard to be a thought-provoking universalist, but more often than not he ends up sounding like a bad Pete Sinfield imitation, only a LOT preachier. Now, when Gabriel was still around, Banks' lyrics were an amusing diversion, designed to give just a bit of a 'serious' streak to the band; when Gabriel left, though, the somewhat generic, preachy "progressive" lyrical style became the band's default mode, and that doesn't thrill me.
But of course, Tony's main contributions to the band came from his playing, and this is where things get tricky. It would be a major overstatement to say that I hate Tony Banks' keyboard playing, of course, because if I hated it, Genesis fandom would be difficult to justify, no matter how much of a fan of Gabriel and Hackett I might be. There are certainly lots of Banks keyboard passages that are absolutely breathtaking, both in how well-played they are and in how well-written they are. Great moments aside, though, I have some issues with the overall approach that's taken. My first issue with Tony's keys (henceforth referred to as Banksynths (tm George Starostin, 1998), even though they weren't always synths) has to do with the "choppiness" (for lack of a better term) of a lot of his parts. While there are certainly many instances where Tony plays in a stereotypical prog manner (a la Wakeman or Emerson), and where he shows himself very capable along those lines, there are a lot of moments where he just seems to hit the chords in sequence X-Y-Z without putting in any "ornamentation" between X, Y and Z. I do concede this might be a major positive for somebody who hates typical wankathon prog keyboarding; personally, though, I like ELP and Keith Emerson's style a lot, because even when he's clearly just fancying up the parts for their own sake, he does it with so much hyperactive energy that it ends up enjoyable more often than not. With Tony, this style, one that very often has him seemingly putting an accent on every note and avoiding legato like it's the plague, tends to work for me when his keys latch onto an interesting riff or chord sequence, and tends to make me fidget otherwise. For all that I love about The Fountain of Salmacis, not the least of which is Tony's playing in most of the track, when I hear the mid-song keyboard passage, I still hear a baseball organ trying to make me yell "CHARGE!!!" and that does not make me happy.
Complaint number two regards his choice of tones. Far, far too often my enjoyment of a Genesis song is marred simply by his choice of instrument and sound for a specific part, and that's something I don't think I'll ever change my mind about. Example: don't you ever wish Banks would be using a grand piano in Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man instead of that wimpy little casio-sounding thing (I mean, I got used to that tone eventually, but it seriously bothered me for a lot of listens)? I swear, sometimes it was like Genesis, in the early albums, was shooting for having the worst produced Hammond organ sound in the world (which, to be fair, was just as much the producer's fault as it was Tony's). Plus, well, I don't really like a lot of the tones used in the first three albums after Gabriel left; I actually end up preferring his 80's sound to those sounds by quite a bit, at least until Invisible Touch. Yes, there are a lot of times when Tony's keyboards totally make a song, but there are also many where I either enjoy a song largely despite his keys (focusing instead on the band's other great aspects) or even find that he mostly spoils the song.
Still, having a "supporting" keyboard approach, even if it doesn't always have the best sounds associated with it, isn't the worst crime in the world. There are plenty of instances of great prog keyboardists who didn't constantly wank all over the place like Wakeman or Emerson could: two that immediately come to mind are John Evans and Kerry Minnear. Genesis, though, was centered around Banks' keyboards, which meant the person whose general style had the most aspects that annoyed me was at the very front of the instrumental mix. The man who suffered the most from this, of course was Hackett; he did have some moments where he could shine on his own, with Tony taking a step back as needed, but the only album with a significant concentration of these moments was England (it's no coincidence that that's my favorite Genesis album, and one of my all-time favorites). In particular, there are several instances where an interesting Hackett part ends up obscured by a much less interesting Banks part that's playing along with it, presumably in the name of keeping a "balance" to the sound (a balance that, of course, gets largely ignored much of the rest of the time when Banks is dominating the sound). The most egregious example of this comes in Ripples, where Steve's amazingly beautiful solo (underpinned by a great Banks piano line, no less) is constantly interfered with by an uninteresting synth part that should have been buried in the mix for texture, nothing more; there are other examples too.
Playing aside, of course, there's also the fact that I feel Tony bears a significant responsibility for Genesis' disintegration over time. It was Tony, after all, that helped make Steve feel pretty marginalized in the end, and he certainly contributed to the conditions that led to Steve wanting to take off. It was as much Tony as anybody that helped push the band in a synth-pop direction in the 80's; this worked out fine for a while, of course, but it opened the door for Collins to start to bring in significant elements of his own solo style, and we know how that ended up. And, of course, it was Tony who wouldn't just let the band die in the late 90's, leading to the infamous Calling All Stations, an album that they probably shouldn't have released.
But still, it was a great, great career overall. I love this band to death despite all of its many, many weaknesses, and happily give it a 4. This was never the most consistent of bands (actually, one of the
things that strikes me most about Genesis is that, in some way or another, every one of their albums represents some integral feature of the band in transition, whether it be the rise and fall of Steve's prominence, or the transition to being a pop band, or one of many other examples) but when they did well, they produced music so stunning that it continues to boggle the mind to this very day.
Philip Maddox (slurmsmckenzie.hotmail.com)
Ah, Genesis. One of my all time favorite bands. And, just like you, I didn't
find them all that special at first. I bought a copy of Selling England By
The Pound (entirely on George Starostin's recommendation) and liked it, but
I didn't quite love it. The more I listened to it, though, it started to
suck me in until it finally became one of my favorite albums (and a 15 on
your overall scale). I actually like Foxtrot just as much, though, if not a
little bit more. Genesis at their peak were just amazing. After Peter left,
they weren't quite as good anymore, but they were still OK (I like Wind And
Wuthering, but it's definately a step down in quality from, say, Nursery
Cryme). Unfortunately, I don't have any post-Wind stuff except for a copy of
We Can't Dance that I paid 4 dollars for (and drastically overpaid). I have
a few Peter Gabriel solo albums (which rule) and a Phil Collins solo album
that I paid 4 dollars for (and REALLY drastically overpaid for). Jethro Tull
is still probably my favorite prog-ish band, but they never played straight
prog (they always played weird pop and othern stuff - they weren't as
"progressive" as a lot of people seem to think). As for bands that are
unquestionably "Prog", though, Genesis wins, just barely beating out Yes,
but just barely. Fantastic band, that Genesis.
Nick Karn (mjareviews.yahoo.com)
I think you basically hit the nail on the head on your
Genesis assessment (though you've probably been
practicing throwing in references to them on your
other pages so much... ;)), and I especially thought
your analogy in the opening paragraph was awesome.
The classic period of the band sure can sound
unattractive at first, but once you get into it, it's
just absolutely gorgeous. Even some of their
'background music' like "Silent Sorrow In Empty Boats"
is totally breathtaking. Great assessment on all the
members, though you might be coming down a little too
hard on Banks for the supposed decline of Genesis.
As much as Banks didn't help things on Wind And
Wuthering, they were already on a creative stagnation
in the progressive area anyway (even if the presence
of Peter and Steve would have sorely helped them).
Plus the last two albums pre-CAS (as much as I enjoy
them) are mostly solo Phil style with few exceptions
and don't really involve Tony too much, and I bet Mike
probably had as much to do with the utter disaster of
Stations, at least musically anyway (it's more guitar
than synth oriented and reminiscent of Mike And The
Mechanics in places). I do get bored by Tony's lyrics
and annoyed with his tone quite a bit at times, but I
can't really knock the guy too hard, especially since
he was so inspiring on Selling England, plus I think
he had as much to do with creating the amazingly
perfect surreal atmosphere of The Lamb as Peter's
lyrics.
But anyway, I definitely agree with the 4 rating on
the band, for all the reasons you said. They may have
been a little inconsistent, but in both their prog and
pop eras they had a lot of extremely solid and unique
stuff. Peter Gabriel is definitely an incredible
talent, with his lyrics, voice and theatrical
abilities, as proven to me by the 70-76 albums, and
I'm just starting to obtain somewhat of an
appreciation of his solo career too, with my
collection there still in progress.
Best - Selling England By The Pound : 14 (not my
favorite prog album ever, but still quintessential of
the classic period)
Worst - Calling All Stations : 5 (do we really have to
consider this a Genesis album?)
Overrated - Wind And Wuthering : 8 (as lifeless as
that ugly album cover... a fan favorite??? blah!)
Underrated - Trespass : 10 (for me it just slightly
edges out FGTR and Three in this category)
Casey Brennan (bevan.voicenet.com)
I pretty much agree with everything you say there John, even though at this
point I only have several Genesis albums to my name. I have just recently
gotten into this great band(finally after all these years)...I've always
wondered what they exactly sounded like but haven't picked up any of their
stuff until now. Thanks to all these web-sites and Nick Karn(whom played
me some of their most adventurous stuff during car rides)though, I've
started to run out and get their albums. When I heard "The Return of the
Giant Hogweed" for the first time in my life(during a car ride) it blew me
away... thank god I now have 'Nursery Cryme' in my collection. But I
still feel shameful for not having the next three releases yet :) That
will change fairly soon though. All I can say now though, is that it's
hard to say which album I like better: 'Trick of the tail' or 'Nursery
Cryme'?
Anyway, I can agree on your assessment of the individual talents. I think
I know what you mean when you say that Banks playing is 'choppy' at
times... maybe that keyboard part on both of the two jams on "The Musical
Box"(not that they sound bad or anything)?
(author's note): Actually, a better example would be Tony's part at the very beginning of the jam in Fountain of Salmacis, where it sounds like an amateur playing a baseball organ. Not that he ruins the song or anything - that's just the best example I can think of off the top of my head. But yeah, The Musical Box is a good example too.
Still, he's fairly decent. I
can't complain about the other band members yet though.
Byron Dahms (orderdesk.centralreprographics.com)
I have to admit, you're spot on with many of your comments ( especially
the rant on Tony- couldn't agree more), however I don't completely agree
with a couple of the points you made. First Phil for the most part, to my
ear anyways, is a much better vocalist. Don't get me wrong I love
Gabriel's vocals, but Phil has a more pure tone, but less character. More
taste, less filling. The second point is, the last album Calling all
Stations isn't all bad- the sad thing is some of the best tracks were
left off the cd and released only as singles- they are some of my
favorites. These guys are so *&$%ing talented, is hard to imagine how
they could hold it together as long as they did- just look at Marillion.
Finally, the real innovator of the the band ( outside of Gabriel lyrics)
was Steve. Just listen to his Watcher of the Skies cd- everyone of those
songs capture the spirit of Genesis better than most of the last couple
of albums did.
Dave Bolton (dbolton.lifesite.net)
Dear John
Just discovered you site dedicated to the prog rock
bands of yesteryear.
Great stuff.
Suppers Ready made me cry too when it gets to
that end part.
Maybe this it a little personal a question, but are you
a Christian?
(author's note): See my Yes page, in particular the Tales review for the answer to that
I loved Suppers Ready even before my own
conversion but now it means so much more.
Gotta go but I just wanted to let you know how much
I enjoyed your site. I will be visiting again.
As a matter of fact I just printed out you pieces on
Tull, Yes and E.L.P. for a read on the way home.
God Bless
Yours Dave Bolton
DANFLANDERS4.aol.com
I must admit,your comments about Tony Banks were quite shocking! But after
finally buying the first five albums after all these years,I have to
agree.When I think of Tony Banks,almost imediately the keyboard solo in
robbery,assult/battery comes to mind.Also the the melody/solo at the mid to
end section of cinema show.I'm sure that when The Great Peter Gabriel was
gone, they all looked at each other and were faced with that question "What
Now".Anything they did after that moment would automatically start the
decline because simply put.......Who could replace Peter
Gabriel???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????? Thanks for the GREAT SITE!!!-----DAN
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
What a group!!! Who would of known how drastically different Genesis was
during its Gabriel/Hackett era! As with many people, I thought that they
were synonymous with (1) mediocre "80's" pop music, and (2) Phil Collins!
(Actually, in hindsight I managed to hear on local radio (surprise!) Squonk
(coincidentally one of the better Collins-era songs I have heard) and
excerpts from The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway : "Back in NYC" through
"Counting Out Time," as well as the title track(How could I associate these
songs as the same pop-oriented Genesis? Who knows...))
Anyway, after having accumulated most of the Yes catalog through Going for
the One, I asked a friend about other good prog groups. He mentioned Genesis
(I thought he was nuts!), and to start with Selling England by the Pound. I
skeptically bought it and was consequently blown away by "Dancing with the
Moonlit Knight" and "Firth of Fifth" (especially Steve Hackett's parts!!).
The rest of the songs on this album as well as those on Foxtrot did leave me
a bit underwhelmed. But, they did grow on me. I now wonder how I could have
possibly overlooked this great group (pre-1977, at least).
Your summary more or less hits the nail on the head with my overall view of
this group. However, I must say that Tony Banks does not annoy me quite as
much as you. However, I do agree that he is "hogging" the attention by Trick
of the Tail (more on this later!) - I thought I was the only one who thought
Steve Hackett was drowned out with his beautiful solo in "Ripples...". As
for after 1977, I still don't own any of these albums, but I feel their hits
(esp., the interchangable Genesis /solo Phil Collins stuff) is quite hit and
mess... .
Wembly (wembly.zoominternet.net) (8/15/01)
After wasting my time reading your half-hearted, Collins-bashing
remarks, I feel like puking. But first let's cover what I do agree with
you on. I agree that Gabriel was a brilliant writer and a passionate (not
in Phil's league!) singer. I also think that it's sad to see so little of
Hackett's work appreciated and loved by Genesis fans. I think, too, that
Ray Wilson was a horrible choice to carry the band on.
Now, onto the many, many disagreements. First off let me say, I am a
big fan and admire Peter Gabriel. But when it comes to vocals, Phil is so
much better. It's a fact more than opinion. Phil's voice is more in tune,
and it's so much more enjoyable listening to him live, singing the old
Gabriel-era music. Secondly, whereas Phil's solo career is based more
strongly around pop, you don't have to hate Genesis's lyrically complex
music just because Phil is the frontman. Did he deserve all the
attention? No. But that's what a frontman is, and I don't hate Phil for
it. Also, We Can't Dance is perhaps the best album they ever made. As
much as I like 'I Can't Dance' it pisses me off that it's all the album
is known for. That is easily my least favorite song on the album. Ever
hear Fading Lights? Driving the Last Spike? Way of the World? Those songs
are amazing!
Now onto my biggest problem of all. You say Tony Banks is a bad
lyricist? Have you ever heard Domino? That is my favorite song of all
time. If it weren't for Tony, there would be no Genesis! He wrote most of
the lyrics for all of their songs, and I can't think of one Banks song I
don't like. Also, Invisible Touch, though horribly overplayed, is one of
their greatest albums of all time.
I think you are betrayed by the fact that Genesis did infact become
more popular without Gabriel, and that Collins could have a successful
solo career. I'm mature enough to admit they both rule equally, even
though I'm not a fan of any of their solo work. I respect your opinion,
just disagree with it so entirely that it's ludicrous! Genesis is the one
and only band I like, and nothing about them sucks.
(author's note): ....
Nah - when you make it this easy, it cheapens it for both of us.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/15/01)
Very good metaphor in the beginning. It's always good to find another person
appreciating Genesis for what they really are. I agree with almost
everything, except Tony Banks. I do wish that Steve was featured more, and
Tony less than he was, but I really like his solos, especially in "Down and
Out" and "Riding the Scree", and I like his tone choices. I think they
really color the songs well. I think the most underrated is "And Then There
Were Three", and most overrated is "Abacab." I hear a lot of people talk
about every song on that album being great, but I never have like the last
two songs much.
lester1234 (lester1234.home.com) (8/15/01)
Some casual observances from a Gabriel-era Genesis fan from way back (I
actually attended the "Lamb" concert and bought original vinyl versions
of Foxtrot, Live and SEBTP when they were first released)............
Ever notice how some parts of the Firth of Fifth (particularly Pete's
flute solo after the words "to hear the Siren's cry..." and prior to
Banks keyboard segue) seem as if they could have been on King Crimson's
21st Century Schizoid Man? The wavering ethereal lilt of that on passage
makes me want to dip back into 21st Century every time!
During the (1969-1973) period, KC and Genesis achieved (at times) a
similar tonal quality (due, perhaps, in large part to their considerable
use the "dark side" of the Mellotron 400), and artisitc "feel".
Obviously Fripp was a bit more frenetic and bent on dissections
of ultra-complex rhythmic structures and Genesis a bit more into the
theatrical aspects of music. However, it is interesting (after 30
years of perspective) to note how similar the musical explorations were
of this era. Makes you wonder how much the various Brit-Prog. bands listened to each other ...
Also....ever notice how many "Degrees of separation" there are between
Gabriel-Hacket Genesis and Fripp-Sinfield Crimson? From Gabriel's ties
to Fripp on his "Games Without Frontiers" big "hit" to Hackett's ongoing
association with various KC member's. Do you know of any Fripp-Hackett
guitar collaborations? Now that's something I want to hear!
Chris Stacey (staceyclan.yahoo.co.uk) (12/15/01)
Ah, another personal opinion if I may.
You have spent
an awful amount of time creating potentially a great
web site covering the members and the albums. Your
flaw however is that your ego gets in the way of some
excellent criticism by you. Also which is your
perogative, you take quite a few swipes at Banks and
Collins, who had so much of an influence from Nursery
Cryme(Collins) anyways. I am not sure whether you
enjoy the character assasinations as part of your ego
boost therapy or just simply enjoy provoking
controversy. In the latter you have been successful.
How you can rate Wind and Wuthering a weak album only
demonstrates your lack of musical understanding of
Genesis. What contradicts your writings the most is
your definite favouring of the classic prog period
with Gabriel and Hackett, but your favourite tunes
from ..and then there were 3 onwards are the most
commercial ones. Totally hilarious really. I respect
your opinion honest and hopefully you, mine. I remain
steadfast however that apart from your factual
historical rhetoric of Genesis you have sadly missed
out on enjoying what you term the weaker periods.
Heres hoping you see the light one day. One
contributor to you site sensibly mentioned that'
silent sorrow in empty boats' was a wonderful piece of
music which you seem to have dismissed...there need I
say more!
(author's note): CURSES! My ego-boost therapy has been thwarted! My self-esteem is MELTING MELTING MELTING OH WHAT A WORLD!
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
I have to defend Tony from your endless bashing here! Genesis were a
totally different band from other prog outfits in as much as, by their
own admission, they were songwriters first and foremost. Have you ever
seen the video Genesis - A History? Very good viewing. Tony was certainly
no Keith Emerson or Rick Wakeman, that's for sure, but I disagree with
you about his choice of synth textures - certainly nothing even comparing
to the cheese-level of Rick on Tormato, for example. I think Tony is a
great writer - he stopped Genesis from turning into the Phil Collins
backing band (for the most part, anyway) and was a great colourist on the
keys. Yes, Steve was under-used, especially on Wind And Wuthering but
this is because Steve was already drifting towards wanting to do his own
thing and the fact that the band voted on the material and Mike and Phil
preferred Tony's songs to Steve's (that's based on a quote from Phil in
the book Genesis - A Biography, a cracking read). So that's my two cents
worth. A terrific band, Genesis.
Nickrj.aol.com (8/10/03)
Hello John. I've been reading your website for a while now and I'm a big fan of
Genesis and The Moody Blues. So I'll right a quick review of both bands. First
Genesis.
My first Genesis album was Invisible Touch. It has since become one my favorite
albums of the 80's. Later on I bought And Then There Were Three and Abacab. Both
were very good as well. Then came Duke and Genesis. Duke is kinda ok but Genesisis terrific.
In 2001 though I finally bought my first Gabriel/Genesis album Foxtrot. I got
hooked on Watcher Of The Skies. Get Em Out By Friday and some parts of Supper's
Ready.
Then The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway and Selling England By The Pound. Selling
England right now has become another one of my favorites. Every song is right
on!
Finally today I bought Trepass, Nursery Cryme, A Trick Of The Tail and Wind and
Wuthering. I only listened to them once so I can't rate them yet. Though I like
The Musical Box, The Fountain Of Salamis and Dance On A Volcano.
However my parents somehow don't like Gabriel/Genesis. Last December we were
driving home from vacation and I decided to put on The Lamb that I had just
bought. Once we got to Back In NYC (Track 7) my parents couldn't take it
anymore. They thought that Gabriel was loud and obnoxius and that he has no
rhyme in his lyrics. Fortunatly I had also bought Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The
Moon (Another all time fav) so we put that on next.
All in all here are my ratings
Foxtrot 8(12)
There you have it! What do you think? I'll give some reviews of some albums
soon.
Nickrj.aol.com (8/17/03)
I forgot to give my take on each of the band members so here it is.
Peter Gabriel: This guy could do it all. Sing as well as put on a show onstage
and he could do voices as well for some characters he creates.
Steve Hackett: Very severly underatted. He knew how to really play some
beautiful guitar.
Phil Collins: One of the best drummers you'll ever hear. Also I happen to like
his solo work in the 80's (I'm a sucker for 80's pop music.) His singing when
he first took over the singing duties wasn't good at first but when the 80's
came along he got better.
Tony Banks: Well I somewhat disagree with you and George Starostin. He is a
very good keyboardist and his work on Selling England shows it. Also him
changing Genesis from a prog to pop band wasn't a bad idea (as Phil I think was
better suited to Pop than Prog). However I do agree about him putting Steve on
the backburner and him making one more album after Collins left when he and
Mike should've broken up.
Mike Rutherford: Good bassist and 12 string guitarist and he knew how to write
some good songs. His band Mike and the Mechanics wasn't too bad as he had a
couple of songs I liked there. (Silent Running and All I Need Is A Miracle)
STEVEN VAGNONE (dmny0507.verizon.net) (4/07/04)
I just recently found your site and I love to read everything you wrote.
I have had thoughts of Tony's playing sometimes overriding Steve's
playing. I would get into hearing Steve's mystical sounds and it would
seem to be cut short by keyboards. That being said, I think you may have
been a little too critical of Tony. A large part of the Genesis' early
sound, that part that draws you in, is the eerie use of the melatron that
plays a key role in the mood of the music. I thought Genesis lost the
fantasy-like atmosphere when Steve left. I listen in awe of his unique
style and catch a different note every time I listen. That's another
reason Genesis grows on you as you listen more and more. You here another
sound that adds to the mood of the song that you didn't pick up on the
first hundred times you listen. That's why I cannot get enough of the
Gabriel and Hackett years. I must ask you where I can obtain a copy of
the hour-long tape from the British Television broadcast you spoke of.
Being very young, I completely missed seeing them before I fell in love
with there music.I would like to start collecting any video I could get
my hands on from the early days.
Thanks for the great website,
Hank Reus (Hank.Reus.tate.com) (7/25/04)
I wanted to thank you for your website. I know it represents a good bit
of work for you.
I've been searching in vain to locate as much info as I can on the band
recently and your site has been helpful.
I'm not sure exactly when I first heard Genesis (to be precise, I mean
Gabriel Genesis other wise I'll say Collins Genesis, as they are
different groups).
Anyway it must have been very shortly after the break-up. What I can
recall is just how mesmerized I became by Hogweed, The Knife, and
Watcher's and of course Supper's. I was truly haunted by the group back
then. In hindsight I think this has something to do with the fact that I
was a teenage adolescent boy. (Batwings! How cool was that!) I had no
idea what costumes where used for what songs. I still am a bit confused
as to what Gabriel wore when and why.
For some reason however I wasn't nearly as moved by Selling England & The
Lamb, as I'd been the earlier works. From Genesis to Revelation even
sounded better to me than Follow you Follow me. (Which is the first rock
concert I ever went to. I loved it! When they did the Fountain of
Salmacis, I felt completely justified somehow.)
I must be honest and admit that even without Gabriel somehow Collins
first two studio albums A Trick and Wind & Wuthering seemed like a bit of
a return to their old structures. Second's Out is as good a live album as
anyone ever put out. So I'd still give Phil some credit.
I saw both Gabriel & Hackett on solo tours at about the same time.
Gabriel's concert was very odd to me. I can't explain this well but
somehow I felt both a great kinship with Peter while at the same time
somewhat alienated, not understanding his new "avant-garde" style. My
expectations from the show were much, much too great. In Genesis Peter
had been so compelling with his vocals. His ability to display emotion so
easily identifiable had separated him from everyone else I'd ever heard.
In all honesty I must admit that it's highly likely that no matter what
he played I would have been critical comparing it to what I'd heard on
record.
I was interested in playing guitar in those days and typically never
really paid any attention to lyrics. But Gabriel had been different in
Genesis. He got my attention immediately if I recall correctly. Then it
all seemed gone and he started to sound like most everybody else out
there to me. I enjoyed the concert, but not as much as I would have in
seeing him with Genesis. (Now I do put conscious effort into being open
to "new" performances and giving material a chance).
Steve Hackett was a surprise to say the least. Hackett's playing on the
majority on Genesis albums was so far beyond my skill as a guitarist at
that point I was greatly intimated by him. It was almost a second thought
that I went to see him in concert. It was a very small hall and I don't
thing it was a very big crowd. We were able to right up to the front of
the stage. I'd heard his first two solo albums and thought they sounded
much like soundtracks as opposed to rock music. So I went with little
expectations. Seeing Hackett play in person, close-up was truly the most
amazing guitar related experience I've ever had. His solo work takes on
a new dimension when you see him play. His discipline and techniques are
unequaled by any other guitar player that I am aware of. Many other
exceptional guitar players can be mentioned as being important to rock
music, etc., and right-fully so. Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Ray-Vaughan,
etc., etc., etc., are typically the names we hear when someone mentions
something about the best guitarist's, etc. However Hackett is the single
most under-rated player I can think of. I was so glad I went to that
show. Very few concerts I've been to since then have been as enjoyable to
me.
I continued to listen to Foxtrot, Nursery Cryme and even the live album
over the years but slowly forgot about the others for the most part.
A couple of years ago I was playing some guitar & bass with some local
buddies thinking about putting together some kind of bar band, again. We
started trying to add Cinema Show as a part one of the sets. We never got
things together and eventually everything fell apart again. But by this
time I had the song in my head. Its gentle grace and elegance provided
stark contrast to most of the other stuff I'd been listening to and
playing at the time. So I started re-buying Genesis in CD form.
Rediscovering all those wonderful recordings I hadn't heard for 25 years
or more!
When I heard about the Archive Boxed Set I became very, very excited.
Suppers Ready live with Peter Gabriel doing the vocal. I had to have it!
When I got it home I quickly skipped everything else and was in heaven
listening to one of the most moving songs I've ever heard. (Picturing
Gabriel in his flowered head dress, etc.) What a thrill after feeling so
disappointed by the version on Seconds Out. (Actually taken at face value
it's not that bad).
What I didn't realize was that there was another Genesis work that was
about to entrance me even deeper than Supper's had for all those years.
When I first heard about the boxed set I was a bit intimidated by the
price. My wife is about to give birth to our first child and money is a
bit of a concern these days. Seeing that the Lamb was included in its
entirety live simply seemed to help justify the purchase. Even though if
it had always been my least favorite album. I didn't understand it at
all. The music was good but it didn't have that folksy, old-English
classical bent that had appealed to me so much in their earlier works. As
a result it was the last thing I listened to from my new boxed set. Yet
this time Back in New York City caught my ear. I began to become haunted
by the song. I listened to the complete Lamb again and this time Counting
out Time struck me the same way. So again I listened and The Grand Parade
struck me. I've become obsessed with the recording and am still listening
to it about every other day at least. (My wife is ready for me to start
listening to something else). Gabriel's vocals and lyric's are so
emotional and vivid. Beginning to understand the story line has helped
quite a bit also. I think this album was just too much material for me to
take in when I initially heard it back in the late 70's. Not to mention
all those great expectations I had of Genesis in those days. If Sergeant
Pepper was the first "concept album", The Lamb must be the last. Arguably
it's the best "concept album" every produced. (That I'm aware of)
I'm thinking about trying to make it to one of the Tribute band concerts.
Apparently The Musical Box may be doing a Lamb show this December near
Baltimore. As I understand it they try to use period instruments, etc.,
As well as all the costumes, slide show, etc., etc. I can imagine what an
effort most go into one of their performances. How they were able to
research all the material in able to provide such a show is something I'd
like to know more about.
So that's my story for what it's worth.
It's great to see that I'm not the only one.
Thanks for allowing me to spill out my Genesis guts!
Also thank you again for your website.
Nickrj.aol.com (9/20/04)
Again here's my updated album ratings with best songs
Trespass 7(11) (Stagnation)
Nursery Cryme 8(13) (The Musical Box)
Foxtrot 9(14) (Supper's Ready (DUH!!))
Selling England By The Pound 10(15) (The Battle Of Epping Forest)
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway 8(12) (In The Cage)
Genesis Live 8(13) (Get Em Out By Friday)
A Trick Of The Tail 9(13) (Dance On A Volcano)
Wind And Wuthering 5(8) (Your Own Special Way)
And Then There Were Three 7(10) (Follow You Follow Me)
Duke 6(9) (Turn It On Again)
Abacab 8(12) (No Reply At All)
Genesis 9(13) (That's All)
Invisible Touch 8(12) (Land Of Confusion)
Mike Chambers (half_eaten.yahoo.com) (11/23/04)
Great review of the band. They are unquestionably my
favorite group of all time. I must agree with those
that said you are being a little harsh on Tony. He's
probably the least responsible for the band going to
crap. It's mostly on Phil and Mike.
Now, what shocked me the most in your review is that
you never mentioned Mike's bass playing. He's just
about my favorite bass player EVER! He plays
compliacted, fast, and beautiful bits all over the
place. Especially in the early days. For example, have
you ever watched a live video of him playing Los
Endos?? (Particularly amazing work on the '76 Tour
video and Duke Tour video. The Invisible Touch Tour
video version was great too) Also I think some of his
stuff rivals Chris Squire at times. Okay that MIGHT be
pushing it... but, I actually like his riffs better.
There's some really fast stuff once you get past the
first 4-5 minutes of Colony of Slippermen when it gets
to the bitchin jamming. Once again, ESPECIALLY LIVE!
(Check out the MAMA tour video version of the In The
Cage medley to be flabbergasted) Hmmm also, his bass
on Get 'em Out by Friday springs to mind.
Him on bass coupled with Phil's great drumming quite
often produced some of the grooviest fast-paced jams
I've ever heard!
Pedro Andino (pedroandino.msn.com) (2/23/05)
ah genesis! collins or gabriel? I still love selling england by the
pound and tresspass! gabriel is cool mystical and freaky! collins is more
pop heavy! loved and then they were 3 and yes yes yes invicible touch!
everywhere you hear genesis fans will boo me but fuck that! I do not have
lamb,tail,foxtrot,or abacab. I still say genesis gets a 10
T J (sporter58.webtv.net) (04/16/05)
Sorry, but I don''t agree in the slightest with your assessment of
Genesis, Tony Banks, and the band's recorded output. But, to be polite,
it's just another reminder that the band are, indeed, an acquired taste.
Either you like their stuff or you don't. Me? I love all of their music,
whether it's Gabriel, Collins, or Ray Wilson standing at the microphone,
and no amount of criticism is gonna change that. Long live Genesis!
Alanrogerdavis.aol.com (03/03/06)
u r a tosser . nerver heard so much shit if u dont like genesis
dont put it on try 2 understand all of it not just parts. cant
get over how u make me feel. this is the 1st time i hav ever sent
any thing 2 sum1
vincent krivacsy (vinny4mow.yahoo.com) (03/26/06)
I'm a big Genesis fan of all eras ... just reading some of your
reviews ... All you do is slam them... its like they sold millions
of albums and have legions of fans .. you can't even get 50 people to
agree with some of the crap that you say in your reviews ... Tony
Banks is my favorite keyboardist and you make it sound like sucks or
something. I have yet to hear a keybaordist who moves me like TB.
He is as much a part of the Genesis sound as anyone in the band.
You're entitled to your opinion but in my opinion you don't really
know much about what you're talking about. Duke - We Can't Dance ..
Each album was successful as well as their tours .. and all you do is
slam them for the most part . . I respect that it is your opinion
but I think you are way off on most points that you make ... . there
i said my peace . .
Pedro Andino (pedroandino.msn.com) (08/06/06)
I am sorry for the flames on all your pages but I got the platinum
collection and hey calling all genesis fans! calling all genesis
fans! this one is a 3 cd set! phil collins is still a number one guy
and also peter gabriel is still a mystical guy. I still say this is
the best albums anyone should own and john, I am sorry about the all
web critics sucks cock thing on the rush page. cheers!.
Sentimential1.aol.com (03/30/07)
Genesis is the greatest band in the world. There's no doubt in my mind about
it. I love them so much, I'm collecting every last Genesis album, I have
around 30 so far.
Eric Benac (sonicdeath10.hotmail.com) (02/02/08)
Words in defense of Tony Banks. I will acknowledge much of what you
say about Tony as being true. The bad lyrics especially. God, Firth
of Fifth is bad. But interestingly, I read an interview with him
where he admitted as much, saying "Firth Of Fifth was probably the
worst song I wrote, lyrically." I think that his importance to the
band early on, and later, actually outweighs his bad sides; the
occasionally cheesy tones, the occasionally choppy playing style, and
the bad bad bad lyrics. Apparently, most of From Genesis To
Revelation was his, musically. Which is probably obvious from how
much of that album is piano based. I'd say significant portions of
every album were his musically, if I had to guess. Peter, of course,
is a talented composer, as is Mike and Steve, though Steve wrote very
little of the Genesis stuff. He did write For Absent Friends entirely
though.
The book that was just released about Genesis to coincide with the
box sets is amazing. The interviews and such that come with the box
sets are even more revealing. All of the music on Firth of Fifth was
Tony, including Steve's solo, which was just a transcription of the
keyboard solo played by Steve beautifully, of course. Tony was
apparently a huge fan of Steve, and had to champion him against other
members of the band, like Peter, at certain points. He loved trading
licks with him in solos, and liked that Steve was more open to
weirdness than Mike or Phil. Speaking of solos, I have to say, and
this is completely subjective, that I find Tony's solos to be the
best constructed of any prog keyboard player. Sure, he doesn't play
on the level of speed and complexity of Wakeman, but he constructs
them not as wanky show offs, but as real melodies designed to create
moods and emotions. Granted, his solo on Robbery, Assault, And
Battery is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard (I think it's
that song: the one where it just goes up and down really quickly in a
way Tony just can't play, and creates no mood but annoyance).
Granted, he probably did TOO many long solos sometimes (Peter is
quoted as saying "one long Tony solo per song is about all I can
stomach").
But I'd suggest getting that book and the box sets. The sound is so
much better, they?re filled with bonus material (SO MUCH LIVE
FOOTAGE!) videos (eh, they?re fun) interviews (very cool) lots of
bonus songs (most of which was already on the box set, but we now
have all of the studio songs from Three Side Live and the Spot The
Pigeon e.p as well, and all in better sound). The fact that the band
improvised all of their music from ABACAB on was very interesting, as
it suggests that nobody was more of an influence than anybody else at
that point. You can even see them improvising in the videos that come
with the box sets. Also, it's interesting to note that that great
drum rhythm from Mama was actually a Rutherford creation! And you
learn a lot about the band, their personality, and can almost come
away from it not hating Tony. In fact, I actually respect him a lot
more afterwards. I thought you might be interested in hearing from a
Tony defender, even if it was a poorly structured defense.
acg3dinst.aol.com (02/13/09)
In general I concurr with your relative ratings of Genesis’ albums. I am not a fan of the first album, and will never get how you can rank “FGTR” anywhere near “Nursery Cryme”, (what on FGTR even remotely compares to “Music Box”?) but never mind! “Lamb” is certainly their most ambitious album, but for me “Selling England” was their peak, simply because of its consistency. No Genesis album was ever flawless. “More Fool Me” is a drag (and not because I’m dumping on ol’ Phil), and “Epping Forest” drags in the middle, but everything else is fabulous. “Lamb” is about 75-80% excelent. Unfortunately I think it drags in the end. A lot of what comes after “The Lamia” just has a feel of story line “connective tissue” to it (“Riding the Scree”, “In the Rapids”, Light Dies Down…”). A lot of people dislike “It”, but I agree with you that it’s a great closing number, and the “it is chicken, it is eggs” line is obviously a cousin of “we’re happy as fish, and gorgeous as geese and, wonderfully clean in the morning”.
thomas woolsey (starblasterz.hotmail.com) (08/13/11)
I just read your Genesis reviews... I am mostly shocked at your ratings...
Oh how fucking original, you gave the overrated Selling England a perfect score despite its flaws (it does have flaws here in
there) and then give all the other albums mixed scores, many of which make no sense. We Can't Dance a 4? It deserves at least a 9,
that album is a great mix of prog and pop, and DRIVING THE LAST SPIKE IS ONE OF THEIR BEST SONGS - AND, COLLINS WROTE THE DAMN
THING! COLLINS! He's not exactly the brains of the outfit, and he managed to construct a brilliant 10-minute rock song that is one
of their most beautifully energetic and meaningful.
OK... Wind and Wuthering a 6?! How...? And ATOTT a B, well that means you at least think it's great so I'm with you there, but I
think it deserves a 10, it has 8 masterpieces on it, there is really nothing wrong with that album unlike Selling England which,
although SEBTP is a very good album, it contains the overdone Battle of Epping Forest, a disastrous 11-minute mess of poorly
organised musical sections and overdone lyrics that even THE BAND THEMSELVES said they didn't like. Selling England isn't perfect
like everyone says it is, good but not great.
And Abacab... gets a B? WHAAAT?! How is Abacab better than Wind, And Then There Were Three, We Can't Dance?! You think Land of
Confusion is the best song in Invisible Touch despite the prescence of Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight?! Also you said that
Supper's Ready is the best on Foxtrot... from Willow Farm onwards? WTF! The whole song is brilliant, one of their most astonishing
achievements and the best bit is Part 3, it is so epic.
Your biggest failing? Hating ONE FOR THE VINE! THAT'S MY FAVE GENESIS SONG! HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY SAY IT IS ONE OF THEIR WORST!!! I
mean come on here. It's a fucking terrific story, with intricate detail and lyrics, and so many excellent sections that ARE all
memorable! Banks's most genius piece of songwriting! And Seconds Out, that's they're BEST LIVE ALBUM! HOLY MOTHER OF FUCK. I cannot
believe your reviews here, they are totally unconvential and nitpicky. You hate Banks' solos so much, I think you're just jealous
of his great talent.
(author's note): While it is true that I have a general sadness at having abandoned keyboard playing so many years ago, my keyboard playing longing and jealousy is generally centered around spirited renditions of Beethoven's "Waldstein" Piano Sonata. That or the Bartok piano concerti.
Hmmm... so you gave Duke an A (fabulous album) and you gave Calling All Stations a 3. Well, at least you did a few things right.
Thank God.
But apart from a few things your opinions are just stupid! You can't enjoy the albums for music, you just found flaws in
everything. If it's not the way you want it to be, you hate it. Well you know what? I sometimes wish I could alter a few Genesis
songs too, but I still really like the songs. I am very proud to like so much of their work instead of picking out the best and
leaving the rest.
Also can I just say your hexidemical rating idea is just ridiculous. I bid you good day sir! Your reviews are just silly.
Sterling Shaw (svsshaw.rocketmail.com) (09/13/12)
I was originally biased against Genesis because the only stuff I ever heard on the radio was Phil Collins' Genesis (that's one of
the reasons I don't listen to the radio anymore). I didn't really like the way the keyboard parts sounded. However, I decided to
buy Foxtrot based on both John's and George's glowing reviews. My initial reaction was "that's it?". Time turns out to be the
saving grace. After a month, I have decided that that is one of my favorite albums ever, and that I love Genesis (even more than
Yes, I'm afraid, who I also adore). If it wasn't for TAAB, I'd say Foxtrot might be my favorite prog album. Your summary of the
band sounds a lot like how I would have said it.
Tim Dagwell (lewgad.yahoo.com) (03/13/13)
Briefly, and without detail, I am tired of the survivors of a sinking ship constantly blamed for its future mediocrity. They
steered HMS Genesis into golden waters, like it or not, yet, Gabriel and Hackett are NEVER censured for abandoning said ship. They
are worshiped as prog gods yet they did ABANDON the group. Just my two cents. (Yes, I am a MAJOR Tony Banks acolyte.)
Joel Westrate (joel.westrate.gmail.com) (07/13/13)
Rush Limbaugh was right when he said you never forget the first time you
heard him on the air, or where you where when you heard that John Lennon
or Kennedy(s) died. The first time I heard Genesis was the spring of
1977, in my dorm, and the sound blew me away. It was the beginning of
Wind and Wuthering and I had not heard anything even remotely close to
that kind of music. I was hooked.
That was many, many years ago and I'm just grateful that I was able to
enjoy the music. Too many people obsess with Gabriel and Hackett leaving.
The group was great with them in it and still pretty damn good after they
left. I'm thankful that they were able to continue on. All bands have a
story. To my ear, Banks was the heart and soul...to my ear. I do not
ever wish to debate. Love the music. thx
Richard Campbell (rickandalysa.rogers.com) (07/13/16)
It staggers me how much we disagree on things. Didn't expect that at all. Your condemnation of Seconds Out and Wind and Wuthering ", versus your muscular attempts to justify much of Invisible Touch for instance, had me shaking my head. And even as I have, in my old age, come to enjoy some of Invisible Touch, you and I don't even agree on which tracks are worthy! Perhaps with the exception of Domino (you liked that one right?). And I love Stagnation which you give a grudging pass. Oh well...at least we both like the band! And basically agree on Phil who I have enormous respect for. It is still fun to read your stuff and you write with considerable skill, depth and wit. And enthusiasm! I will check you out on Yes soon. I can't wait to see how big the cavern is between us with that band! Cheers!
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
As a kid, my brother and sister bonded with my father over sports. He would often coach their summer baseball and softball teams, he could yell at the television over football with them, and I was too nerdy, too gay, and too musically inclined to be involved in more than a cursory way with sports.
But luckily, we had Genesis. I knew many of their songs before I had any kind of understanding on who they were, since he always played music while cleaning (hence why Selling England By the Pound is my all-time #1 album), and at 13, he took me to see my first Musical Box show. I was immediately taken with this quirky, talented band, and I immediately tried to find out more about them. By the end of high school, I had listened to every album, archive, b-side, or outtake that I could get my hands on.
Genesis was the first prog rock group that I ever became familiar with. While I've gotten heavily invested in a number of them since (Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, King Crimson etc.), none have had the impact on me that Genesis has. Maybe it's a first love sort of thing, but Genesis stands proud and tall as my #1 favorite progressive rock group.
Best song: In The Wilderness or One Day or The Conqueror
Rarely has the debut album of a major group received this much of a slagging from both fans and critics alike. And on the surface, the flaws of the album are huge and very numerous, seemingly leaving criticism fully justified. In case you're unware, here's the general rundown: first, the band was in its formative stages, without either of its instrumental virtuosos (Hackett and Collins, both of whom would join in '71). Hence, the playing on this album is a bit unimpressive - put another way, Tony Banks was by far the most skilled instrumentalist in the band at this point, and that should tell you something. Next, the band had not yet found its own distinct style, choosing to emulate the Beatles, Bee Gees and Zombies. And worst of all, producer Jonathan King, in an attempt to make the band seem 'sophisticated', forced the band to write around the concept of the creation of the world through the death of Adam (yes, I know the title implies the whole Bible, but trust me, it's fairly apparent that the story is all told from the point of view of God or Adam, and no other characters). Oh, and when they were done, he threw a lot of orchestration over the songs, except that King seemingly had no idea how to properly use string and brass arrangements in rock (unlike, say, George Martin).
So the obvious question comes to mind - WHY am I giving this album an A??!!! Because beneath all of the superficial weaknesses lie two of Genesis' strengths, in just as full of force now as they would be later - incredible songwriting and incredible vocals from Peter. I don't know if I'm just listening to different songs than the rest of y'all, but almost a dozen of the songs on here (and yes, I'm counting the singles on the reissue, more on those later) are, at least in one aspect in each of them, absolute pop perfection. Am I Very Wrong?, for instance, may have a slightly awkward and Disney-sounding chorus, but how about that vocal melody in the verses?! And the rest ... man. Man. Where The Sour Turns To Sweet is beautiful, In The Beginning has one of the most awesome vocal hooks I've ever heard, and Fireside Song is EVEN BETTER. Are you going to tell me that the chorus of that song isn't one of the most perfectly constructed tunes you've ever heard??!! And don't forget In Hiding or Window, no sirree, the former with another perfect sing-songey melody and the latter yet another beautiful ballad.
And that sure as heck isn't all. Did you notice I put THREE songs from this album as my 'favorite'? In The Wilderness is a whee bit flacid in the verses, but that chorus ... "Music, all I hear is music, guaranteed to please ...". Guaranteed to please is right, dang it. And neither The Conqueror nor One Day fall short of the standard, the former a great energetic rocker and the latter one of the most perfect love songs I've ever heard.
Oh, and don't forget the bonus tracks. The single version of The Silent Sun is only slightly better than the album one (and that one's really dull, actually), but the other three are all highly recommendable. That's Me is, as usual, catchy as all get out, a great anthem of misogyny, while A Winter's Tale has yet another incredible chorus melody, while One Eyed Hound has great interaction between the piano melody and Peter's vocals.
Oh, I was going to tell you about Peter's vocals on this album, wasn't I. Now, at first glance, it would seem that Peter fails miserably in trying to vocalize the early chapters of Genesis, the logic being that since he's singing about such a profound part of Christianity, he should sound booming and authoritative to match the profundity. Well, quite honestly, I think that's bunk. How do you really think Adam would have been upon his placement on the earth - authoritative and patriarchal (how on earth do I spell that?), ready to assume his place as the biological father of all of Man? Bull. He would have been filled with wide-eyed awe at all of the creations around him - his own body, the animals in the garden, not to mention Eve and this new, strange emotion called 'love'. And in THAT way, Peter pulls off the album to an absolute tee. The lyrics (which, btw, are NOT bad - they are youthful and naive in their feel, but naive does not necessarily mean bad or sloppy) and vocals on this album combine in such a way as to perfectly convey the 'story behind the story' with Adam.
In case you haven't been able to tell, I really like this album. If you dislike it, well, it's your own choice, but dismissing it so easily just based on the lack of competent instrumentation and stupid orchestration seems no less than a fatal mistake to me.
Pablo Agustin Hillar Cazeneuve (p_hillar.hotmail.com) (11/29/01)
My best song is In the Wilderness, and In hiding too. I think that it is a
good album, something ok to start. In fact the first album of Genesis is
better than the first album of other great bands. I think that in the
wilderness have some power that the other song not have enough. In other
way, In hiding have a bit of magic, just like Mad Man Moon, Into deep or
Time Table. The rest is good: Silent Sun, That's me, A winters tale,
Fireside song or When sours turn to sweet are really goods.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
I basically agree with you, some very good songs poorly realised is how I
would some this album up. I think I'd give it 6.5 out of 10. Best song? I
like "The Serpent"
bsitting.mail.math.ucsb.edu (8/27/02)
This ain't bad at all! These songs are very pleasant pop songs not that much
different from those of The Bee Gees from that period. Gabriel already has
unique voice down (minus his crazy quirky intonations). Don't expect any
instrumentation wonders, though. "In the Wilderness" is the favorite here,
gotta like that chorus! If anything, the google's worth of different
editions/covers to this album is a bit annoying! 7 out of 10.
PEROGAMVROS LAMBROS (lambros_pero.hotmail.com) (12/18/02)
Hallo!i dont have this album but i have genesis archive 67-75.The fourth cd
has most of this songs and some unreleased.i want to say i just love-i mean
love!- the "she is beautiful" song ,which later was renamed "serpent".Is it
exactly the same?bye bye genesis fans!
dave gravis (davegravis.quickclic.net) (9/20/04)
Finally, somebody else who likes this recording! I have been a long time
Genesis fan and couldn't agree with you more. Genesis music is not
something one should over analyze, even though most fans inevitably tend
to wax proficient at this, but rather it is to be listened to, absorbed
and internalized. The really beauty of the music of Genesis, like all
fine art works, does not become apparent until long after one has
listened, opened up one's mind, and assimilated the material. While I
might not agree with your feelings regarding Tony Banks, I do agree with
the assumption that the best and brightest of all that was Genesis, waned
after Peter, and most definitely after Steve's departure. Michael
Rutherford's bass, bass pedal and guitar work from Trespass to Second's
Out (heck even on the Lady Lies from And Then There Were Three) is quite
simply incredible. I love Chris Squire, and Greg Lake, but the three
(Mike, Chris and Greg) are simply different musicians. Mike is the
unsung hero of the progressive era. I believe Phil Collins is not only
the most underrated percussionist of our time, but his vocals at the end
of Supper's Ready (Second's Out) are perhaps the best and most powerful
of his career with that band. It's quite sad that while singing about
something as indescribably beautiful as the Lord's imminent return, that
on stage, Peter preferred mundane theatrics and satire to the awesome
vocal potential behind what maybe his greatest lyric. Otherwise, what
can I say but good about the band!
Trfesok.aol.com (05/18/08)
It seems that when one actually discovers the record, you either love
it or detest it. I personally am very fond of it, occasionally
returning it to it to sort of briefly regain a bit of youthful
innocence. Of course you do have to take it in the context of the
times when Gabriel sings about things like "the land where the
rainbow ends" or his "animal friends", but it is nice.
When you discuss their influences, you overlook the most obvious --
their Decca label-mates The Moody Blues. Their spaced out, orchestral
sound permeates the record. Of course, these high schoolers and their
not-much-older producer really bit off much more than they could chew
here. "In the Beginning/Fireside Song/The Serpent" do form a little
suite that brings a story line together. However, unlike you, I
think that the rest of the record is a failure as a concept album.
Feminists better not pay too much attention to the lyrics of "The
Serpent", either ("And God created womankind/The vessel of Satan's
hope" -- bet Peter cringes at that one today). Also, unlike you and
just about everybody else (including the band), I think the
orchestration, per se, isn't a problem. When hearing the mixes on the
Archive, it becomes clear that something was needed to compensate for
the band's rather limited musicianship at this point. The problem
was, as you point out, is that King had no clue on how to incorporate
Arthur Greensdale's arrangements into the album. For example, on
"When the Sour Turns to Sweet", the group's instrumentation is
in only one channel and the orchestra in the other. It'd be nice if
the group could get the album rights away from King. They would be
able to give it a proper mix with a much better balance.
Despite these troubles, most of the record (and the bonus singles) is
really enjoyable. "WTSTTS" is a uplifting opener, "In the
Wilderness", I agree, makes it because of the chorus. "One Eyed
Hound", with its weird, dark lyric, is the best of the earlier
singles. Still, I'd have to pick "The Conqueror" as my favorite, with
its a great tune, and it's edgier, more sarcastic political lyrics.
Sort of a precursor of "The Knife." On the whole, though, a nice
little album, but hardly typical of Genesis!
majora27.gmail.com (03/13/14)
Why the hell to people bash on this album so much. It's just some pleasant unpretentious pop. Similar to the Moodies. (And perhaps even better,
sorry. 'dodge bullet') I agree with the A, maybe even a B.
Best song: The Knife (duh!)
After everybody in the whole wide world bashed FGTR into the ground, Genesis apparently decided that if they were going to be a successful group at all, they would have to revamp in a big, big way. So they picked up a new, slightly better drummer in John Mayhew, headed into the studio and reinvented themselves as a fledgling prog-rock group. Gone were the short pop songs and youthful faces on the cover, replaced by lengthy, complex compositions with endless instrumental breaks and an icy blue album cover depicting the temptation of Christ by Lucifer.
So what's the problem? Well, the problem is that a huge number of these instrumental breaks are, at least on first few listens, dull to the extreme. A lot of them grew on me eventually, but for the first year or two that I owned this album, I couldn't even vaguely remember a large chunk of them. Put another way - take the following year's The Yes Album, preserve the quality of the songs from a melody perspective, but remove virtually all melodic and 'epic' hooks (not to mention energy) from the instrumental parts, and what you get is Trespass. But then, this was to be expected; Genesis never had the greatest chops in the world even in their hey-day, so what should one expect when they have neither of their major virtuosos, not to mention that it's only been a year since an album that had some very sub-par instrumental performances? The band does a good job of creating a lot of interesting atmosphere, and a lot of the textures during the parts when Gabriel sings are very pretty, but when the vocals disappear for a long stretch, things often get hairy.
In this respect, the first side of the album is a real pain to sit through, even if there are enough strengths to compensate at least partially. The actual songs are very, very good, don't get me wrong - even the somewhat ridiculous White Mountain, with lyrics by Rutherford, has a fabulous melody in the main portions. And the overwhelming vibe of desperation coming from Gabriel's vocals in Looking For Someone (with another fascinating and extremely complex melody) and the pretty melody and chorus in Visions of Angels make both of these tracks extremely enjoyable at times. But ONLY when Gabriel's singing - the rest of the time, my head inevitably starts drooping. I'll admit that the 'jam' at the end of Looking For Someone makes some sense, with a pretty impressive build, but the rest? Bleh.
However, the second half is significantly better. Stagnation seemed a little unmemorable to me at first, but I've come to love it over the years. The first makes for a pretty, memorable and cold ballad, and the main instrumental passage, particularly in the bits with Tony having fun with the tuning properties of the mellotron, is incredibly lovely and atmospheric. And of course, there's the fabulous return of Peter's vocals near the end, as Gabriel pleads for water and a place to rest himself ("ah ah ah AH AH AH AH AH AH AH SAID I WANNA SIT DOOOOWWWWN" is something all Gabriel fans should hear at some point). To me, though, the quiet ballad Dusk is just as good. Have you ever had the chance to sit outside during a cold winter dusk? If not, you might not be able to fully appreciate the cold majestic mood created by this track, but if you have, you'll probably agree with me in my fondness and love for this song. Not to mention that the melody is once again friggin' beautiful, with gorgeous harmonies in the choruses and even more of the shaking tenderness than usual of Peter's emoting (especially when he sings, "And if we draw some water, does the well run dry?"). And best of all, the instrumental jamming in the song is kept to an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, only involving some pleasant acoustic lines and some flute chiming in once in a while.
So yeah, this is a good album, despite all of the problems with the instrumental passages, and ...
...
Ha! Did you really think I was going to write a review of Trespass without gushing over The Knife? It's crazy, like nothing I've ever heard before or since. For the first time ever, the Banksynths have found an awesome riff and melody to latch onto, and goodness knows I like it when Tony's playing a pattern that's interesting and makes sense. And the lyrics??!! "I'll give you the names of those you must kill, all must die with their children. Carry their heads to the palace of old, hang them high, let the blood flow"!! "Tell me my life is about to begin, tell me that I am a hero, promise me all of your violent dreams, light up your body with anger."!! And of course, "Some of you are going to die, martyrs of course to the freedom that I will provide." And the most frightening thing is that, listening to Peter scream out these lines in the way only he can, you actually believe him if you're not careful. Not to mention that there are some perfectly interesting guitar solos in the song (pretty much the only ones on the album, actually), interspersed with quiet flute lines, gloomy and majestic organ passages, Peter chanting "we are only wanting freedom" in a war-march style, all culminating in the band playing a menacing chord in a rhythm more frightening than all of the 'evil' passages of every heavy metal band ever (well, maybe except for the end of Metallica's One). It's not the absolute greatest number the band ever did, but it's certainly up there (though I actually like the Live version more, believe it or not), and by itself makes the album worth hearing and owning.
In short, all of the traits that made Genesis such a great band are already in place - it just so happens that all the negatives are splashed over them in a greater amount than usual, and they're just too much to not hurt the rating significantly. But it's still quite a good album.
Casey Brennan (bevan.voicenet.com)
This is the first Genesis album I ever heard. It took me a little bit of
time to get into it.. but most noticeably great to me were "Looking For
Someone" with its' well-constructed and beautiful melody, and of course,
"The Knife"(I've never met a sole who never liked this track...). The
former track actually contains some of my favorite jamming on the whole
album. While parts of it are rather simple-sounding, a lot of it sounds
pretty majestic to me - Tony Banks does well with his piano and organ
playing through-out(especially that medieval-ish organ part at the start of
the second jam) and most of it in my opinion, for whatever reason, seems to
go well with the front cover. My favorite moment from the obvious
show-stopper "The Knife" is the fabulous and completely earth-shaking
guitar solo which comes after those thrilling screams. I can't agree with
you much on "Dusk" though, as it just seems like a somewhat pleasant ballad
to me(the quality of it is not much un-like the shorter songs from the next
album).. but "Stagnation" has grew on me quite a bit over time, and
"Visions of Angels" has a lot of melodic power during the verses. I also
like the drumming a bit on the latter song during the hymn-like
instrumental sections. "White Mountain" meanwhile, isn't too bad
either.... despite having the worst production off of the whole album, and
not being particularly successful in what it tries to do.
The seeds were pretty much sown... I can really hear the sounds of a great,
promising band on this record.
I agree with the 7(10)... I'd give this a solid 7 on my scale.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com) (8/02/01)
This is the last prog-era Genesis album I bought. Nevertheless, it is quite
decent. There seems to be universal consensus here on "Looking for Someone"
and "The Knife" as the standouts here. Well...I agree! The other songs are
not so much bad, but rather drag and can be unmemorable for exactly the
reasons you mentioned. Nevertheless, the song structures are becoming
increasingly complex so early on in their career. Maybe it was anticlimatic
to have bought Live first, but this version of "The Knife" is still quite
spectacular in its own right. Just the instrumentation skills are quite
limited (ex:check out the simple yet enthusiastic drum rolls!)
For now, this album earns a 6 out of 10.
Pablo Agustin Hillar Cazeneuve (p_hillar.hotmail.com) (11/29/01)
When I heard Tresspass I felt really impresed. It experimented a mix of music
and magic and fantastic lyrics: just what I was waiting for. The cover is
great. The songs are sofisticated and show a particullary moment of the
band. My best song is White Mountain. For a moment, this song becomes deeper
inside of me. The guitar introduction is very good. I think that Tony had
the most participation on this song. The Knife and Stagnation are very good
too.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
Here is where the "real" Genesis starts. They were already moving to this
sort of material, apparently, during the FGTR period but Jonathan King
didn't like that style, so they wrote short pop songs to please him.
Anyway, There is one similarity between this album and its predecessor in
that the production on Trespass is, for different reasons, equally horrid
as on FGTR. The sound on this album is muddy as all getup. Good songs
though, "The Knife" and "Stagnation" are the standouts. 7.5 out of 10
Trfesok.aol.com (09/14/08)
Actually, the "whole wide world" didn't bash the first album into the
ground - the problem is that no one ever heard it, selling a grand
total of 650 copies in the U.K., and London Records declined to
release in the U.S. as a result. So, obviously, something had to be
done.
I'm evidently in a minority of two on this one (I once ran into
someone on AOL's Genesis board who felt the same way), but this is my
favorite Genesis album. Granted, later albums had stronger
musicianship and production. Nonetheless, those albums are missing
the gentler, folkier aspects of this one. Anthony Phillips was a
fairly dominant songwriter ("Visions of Angels", supposedly, is
almost all his, inspired by a crush on Gabriel's girlfriend). As a
result, the instrumental passages that you find dull, to me, have a
meditative, pastoral feel that I find very spiritual. Yet, I also
enjoy the more aggressive numbers, like "Stagnation" (cool
apocalyptic science fiction) and "The Knife", indeed a
classic. The band's transformation in just over a year is amazing -
-especially Gabriel's vocals - deeper, more powerful. While the
gains of the addition of Collins and Hackett can't be denied, I think
something was lost in the change to the darker and more eccentric
tones that they would only occasionally revisit later. I bet that
Phillips' first solo album retains a lot of this sound, but I have
yet to dig it up.
This album deserved a lot more attention, but the lack of an obvious
single ("The Knife" was split into two parts, but that wasn't going
to cut it), like "Lucky Man" or "Your Move", prevented the album
from getting a lot of airplay. In the U.S., the album was initially
released on ABC Impulse, a jazz label, who didn't know what to do
with it. It's no surprise that the first Genesis album to chart in
the U.S. was Selling England.. , which was the first album on
Atlantic. They had already seen prog success with Yes and ELP. If
only this one had found its way to Atlantic first..
andreascg.aol.com (02/13/09)
I basically agree with your rating and your comments. This is
Genesis having found their sound, but not having quite refined it
yet. It's still a step down from the following 4 studio albums, but
overall a good album. One thing that always amazes me is how gravely
20-year-old PG's voice already sounds! He's already leaps and bounds
beyond FGTR. To me THIS is the first Genesis album. I think
Stagnation is an under-rated song, although I must say the live
version on Genesis Archive I is livelier. This album is not without
it's problems, as you correctly state. The background vocals (esp.
on "Dusk") are way too "twee". In addition to being a far superior
drummer, one other attribute PC brought is how well he harmonized
with PG's voice. Likewise, as you say, some of the accoustic
passages are rather snoozy. It needs to be pointed out that original
guitarist Anthony Phillips, who left after this album, though not as
accomplished a player as Steve Hackett, did make a contribution to
the band's more pastoral-sounding moments, which would still be
evident in later songs like "Music Box". Check out his solo album
"Geese and the Ghost", BTW.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
When you put this album into the overall context of the group as a whole, it really is remarkable just how much the band benefitted from the later additions of Steve Hackett and Phil Collins. Both are sorely missed on this album, and while the stylistic markings or Banks, Gabriel, and Rutherford are all there (especially on the better tracks), they just aren't enough to sustain my interest throughout.
That said, there are many moments that are worth the listen. Looking For Someone, White Mountain, Stagnation, and most of all The Knife are all above average tracks. However, I can't help but give this album the label that many more "mainstream" reviews do: It's more exciting in the context of what it leads to later, rather than what it shows immediately.
Best song: The Musical Box or Return of the Giant Hogweed
As with Yes, record number 3 represented the "big leap" for Genesis. Phil Collins and Steve Hackett entered, bringing with them instrumental skill that the band oh-so-badly needed - in fact, this album is easily the second-most guitar-heavy of Genesis' career, as all of Hackett's tricks are on prominent display at just the right times. The progressive nature of the compositions began to enter full flight, as the band contributed three musical masterpieces in the epics. And, most of all, Gabriel finally discovered his incredible sense of the absurd, as his lyrics became more intricate and more entertaining than ever before. And that absurdity even reaches to the album cover - I may perhaps be all wet here, but I'm almost POSITIVE that the girl holding the mallet represents Gabriel, the other woman on wheels the producer, and the heads lying on the ground the other band members.
Ah yes, it also introduces us to the human-head croquet game that underpins the story of epic number one, The Musical Box. Ignoring the music just for a moment, the story Gabriel creates here is nothing short of sheer brilliance - not just the fact that it's so strange, but the way in which he makes it impossible to truly determine who the 'hero' is. I mean, Cynthia lopped off Henry's head with a mallet, but Henry comes back as an old man and rapes Cynthia. WHO DO YOU ROOT FOR HERE??!! Is the ending tragic? A victory? The answer, of course, is that it's neither (even the giant musical climax at the end doesn't really betray the nature of the piece), and that it is the first of many glorious enigmas that Peter would paint for us.
But if it were just the story that were so cool, the song would lose much of its power. No, it is truly the music itself that makes this the classic it is. The vocal melodies in the beginning and middle are beautiful but sadly pleading, while the Elizabethan Folk nature of the music alternately soothes and tenses the listener. And, of course, the faster instrumental breaks are just marvelous. Hackett is the star, no question about it, and even Tony Banks is willing to reduce the role of his regular keyboard style in the jams, often using them as a feedback supplement for Steve and Mike (it's really cool to watch a live performance of this song and realize that all of the loudest and most abrasive sounds are actually coming from Tony's keys, and that they actually work). And again, Steve's guitar parts are absolutely incredible - fast enough to satisfy one's need to hear shredding, but also impeccably constructed and written.
And, of course, we have the grand finale, with Peter once again the main star, screaming in the guise of an old man, "Why don't you TOUCH ME, TOUCH ME, TOUCH ME, TOUCH ME, TOUCH ME, TOUCH ME NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW! NOW!" Granted, he could get a little gross with this part on stage, but there's no denying that this conclusion is one of the most overwhelmingly moving moments in the history of rock music.
Unfortunately, the album is somewhat inconsistent from this point onwards. The other two epics are marvelous, but most of the shorter songs are, well, kinda lame. Well, except Harold the Barrel, of course, with Peter singing the story of man about to jump off a ledge. The music is hilarious, maniacally slamming from one up-tempo theme to another while we hear things like old Mrs. Barrel singing "Your shirt's all dirty and there's a man here from the BBC - You just can't jump." But the other short songs, again, stink. For Absent Friends (with Collins' first-ever lead-vocal in Genesis) and Harlequin mostly escape me every time I hear them, and Seven Stones isn't really better. The lyrics are pretentious without being entertaining (I'll bet dollars-to-dimes that Tony wrote them!!), and the only part of the song that has ever fascinated me is the pretty mellotron part at the end.
No matter, though - the other two epics rule. Return of the Giant Hogweed, the heart-warming story of a race of weeds that take over the earth, is utterly fabulous and hilarious, from the feedback-drenched rolling guitar lines of the beginning to the ludicrously complex melody and chorus structure to the interesting jamming in the middle. Even Tony's playing doesn't seem as annoying here, as the main keyboard riff is quite entertaining. And, of course, Peter's singing, from the "Turn and run!" etc. screams of the beginning, to the 'Dance of the Giant Hogweed' at the end, when the weeds finally win their battle and Peter cries "Mighty Hogweed is avenged! Human bodies soon will know our anger! Kill them with your Hogweed hairs! Heracleum Mantegazziani!" is entertaining beyond words.
And, finally, we have Fountain of Salmacis, lyrics by Mike, which tells the story of the creation of Hermaphrodites. The lyrics are straight-forward, without too much 'commentary' or anything pretentious like that, with Peter making you feel for the 'hero' with cries like "Where are you father? Give wisdom to your son" or "Away from me cold-blooded woman, your thirst is not mine!". And some (though not really most) of the instrumental parts are cool too - there's a little too much Tony for me (though I must say the mellotron/organ fade-in, which gets reprised several time in the song, is very beautiful), and it sounds really strange in the mid-song jam when it sounds like he's playing a baseball organ, but Steve, when he's around, knocks your socks off. The simple guitar flourish at the beginning of the jam, in particular, as he slowly creeps between the speakers while building tension with an ominous call from his guitar, wows me flat every time I hear it.
So what of all this? This is certainly the biggest breakthrough of Genesis' career, as the positive aspects of the band are shown in full for the first time - but there are also still negatives. The occasional dose of lackluster songwriting, falling back on simple acoustic patterns that only try to rely on 'atmosphere' instead of actual music content, not to mention the fact that only three of the songs bare the obvious stamp of Gabriel's lyrics, drags down the rating ever so slightly. But don't get me wrong - you should definitely get this. It's just that you should probably get the next few albums first ...
Sierrasun3.aol.com
This is a very good album and a big step forward from Trespass. "The Musical
Box" is the best track, especially the hard rocking parts. Steve Hackett and
company go totally manic on this song. I love that guitar shriek when the
jamming begins (that's guitar, right?). Also, Peter's vocals are really
creepy and fit the morbid story line well. "For Absent Friends" is pleasant
and a breather between two longer, heavier pieces. The vocals in "The Return
of the Giant Hogweed" are pretty weird (as they probably should be for a song
about killer weeds). Very good instrumentals on this one, especially the
climactic ending. "Seven Stones" might sound dull at first, but I like it.
The chorus is haunting, as is the mellotron at the end. "Harold the Barrel"
is a humorous, fast-paced, and entertaining romp, but I get goosebumps when
Harold jumps. Maybe its just me. "Harlequin" seems like a Trespass outtake,
but its not bad. I love the wall of mellotron at the beginning of "The
Fountain of Salmacis" as well as the little jam in the middle that includes a
cool bass lick. I disagree about the 'baseball organ' and I think it fits in
alright. This song also has a good closing (many of their songs did). Gotta
love the mythology lyrics, too. My one gripe about this album is that I wish
it was a little longer.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
Maybe it's strange that this is the third Genesis album I bought (after
Selling England by the Pound and Foxtrot). Pehaps, after having let these
albums thoroughly digest, I caught onto this album after a couple of
listens.
Despite the few nice but forgettable songs, like "For Absent Friends" and
"Harlequin" ("Seven Stones" is almost in this category), this album is
superb! What a first effort from the "classic" lineup! "The Music Box" with
its shifts of mood is simply amazing! Steve Hackett shreds, and Phil Collins
almost sounds like Keith Moon in the agressive parts (who would've known!).
"Return of the Giant Hogweed" is simply one of the sickest (in an endearing
way) songs I've ever heard - another classic! "Harold the Barrel" is short
and extremely catchy with great indication of Harold's fate(?) by Tony at
the end of the song. "The Fountain of Salmacis" took me a while longer to
appreciate. Nevertheless, it has great booming mellotron lushes, as well as
(for me) one of the first cathartic Hackett solos at the end of the song.
It's amazing how much he can do with just a small handfull of notes... .
I happily give this album a score of a low 9 out of 10 (due to the
"unforgettble" songs). An excellent and promising beginning from the
"classic" lineup.
Pablo Agustin Hillar Cazeneuve (p_hillar.hotmail.com) (11/29/01)
Nursery Crime was the third album that I bought of Genesis. After Genesis
(Mama) and Three sides live. The Musical Box and The Fountain of Salmacis
are far the best songs of the album, and maybe two of the best songs of the
band history. Musical Box have power,mistery,violence and misticism. I think
that to see and hear it on a live show could be an extasis. For me de
Genesis Live version is better than the studio version, mostly because the
electric guitar solos. The Fountain of Salmacis is a kind of great quality
composition, complex and beautyfull. Something modern for this album. The
keyboard solo is just incredible, and I think that the live version sang by
Phil on Three sides live have much power and is excellent. The other songs
are goods too, but for me except Seven Stones, the rest fill spaces.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
I'm gonna stick my neck out here (and hope my head doesn't get lopped off
by a polo mallet!) and say this is my Favourite Genesis album. "The
Musical Box", for mine, is the best song they ever did, yes, even better
that "Supper's Ready". The other epics are great too. I disagree about
the shorter songs, I love "Seven Stones", I think it has a great lyric
and I love the mellotron part, very mournful. Also, I think the shorter
sons serve the same purpose as, say, the solo turns on Yes' Fragile, i.e.
they give you breathing space. "For Absent Friends" just gives the
listener a two minute respite between the twin onslaughts of "The Musical
Box" and "Return Of The Giant Hogweed". And, unlike the earlier albums,
the production is crystal clear. I'm gonna give this 10 out of 10!
Trfesok.aol.com (12/05/06)
The loss of Anthony Phillips certainly changed the tone of the band.
He was the guy pretty much responsible for the folky, pastoral tones
of songs like "Visions of Angels" and "Dusk," which I really liked
(although I seem to be one of the few that did). Gabriel's
eccentricity comes to the fore, and a sense of dark humor appears.
(The band did take itself WAY too seriously on the first two albums,
I will concede.) I'm not sure I like that harsher tones of "Hogweed"
or "Harold the Barrel," but they're fun. And, certainly, there's a
powerful jump in musicianship and versatility with Hackett and
Collins on board. "For Absent Friends" is a nice slice-of-life song
(Rutherford and Collins wrote it, I think) that is very atypical of
early Genesis. Still, I do have to close with the opening and closing
songs as top tracks, two real classics on a really good album.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
Oddly enough, I was immediately taken with the album, and although I don't revere it nearly as much as I once did (at one point it was probably my second favorite Genesis album, today it is probably 7th) I'm still rather fond of it. It helps that its opener is probably my favorite Gabriel-era track (depending on the day, since Suppers' Ready and Back in NYC could also fit that description). The middle instrumental section, with the great guitar keyboard interplay, is one of my favorite overall Genesis passages, and the climax is an absolute knockout. As I said with Trespass, this album shows the significant benefit that Collins and Hackett brought to the group. Return of the Giant Hogweed is another classic, and Fountain of Salmacis is gorgeous overall. For Absent Friends, though mediocre, is brief enough to be inoffensive, and Harold the Barrel seems like a great precursor to songs like I Know What I Like and the Willow Farm section of Suppers' Ready.
Best song: Supper's Ready (all of it, but especially from Willow Farm onwards)
See, now this is what artistic growth is all about. You have a strength? Build and expand upon it, systematically exploring it to discover its full potential and possibilities. You have a weakness? Work at decreasing its prevalence in your sound, replacing it with alternatives that help rather than hinder. With this album, Genesis took the giant revolution that they'd made with Cryme, accentuated the positives, substantially decreased (though, unfortunately, failed to eliminate) the weaknesses, and as a result produced the first truly awesome album of their career.
Now, it should be noted that it's not quite perfect, great as it proves to be again and again. Many people love Can Utility and the Coastliners - I do not. From the very first listen, it has always struck me as, for lack of a better term, the 'laziest' song on the album. The melody is fairly pretty and even memorable, but is it pretty enough to get by on beauty alone? I would definitely say not. Indeed, the instrumental breaks in the piece, on the whole, are the most predictable and even boring on the record - of the Mike/Tony/Steve sequence near the end, only Hackett (who apparently wrote much of the music in this song) comes up with a decent part, and even that is nothing to write home about. It's an okayish song, but I'll never love it.
But enough whining - the other five tracks aren't just good, they are overwhelmingly fabulous. First of all - remember how this album starts, with those ominous mellotrons? Man, if you've wanted a textbook definition of an 'epic hook', that is the place to go. Of course, as Tony tends to do, he overdoes the trick by at least a third, and the synth tone isn't quite as majestic as it deserves to be, but no matter, because then it leads into the fan-favorite and masterpiece Watcher of the Skies. Yes, the lyrics are dumb (as Tony's almost always are) but they're at least entertaining and funny this time around, and the actual music is sheer brilliance. From the slow build of tension and volume of the guitars and drums underneath the organs, to the incredibly complex and just as incredibly memorable chorus and verse melody, to the subtle bits of guitar without which the song wouldn't have half of its power (dig those *wheeeeeezh* noises he throws in at appropriate intervals!), to the menacing conclusion with the band messing with the rhythm in an unpredictable way, rarely has any album had such a perfect and appropriate opening track.
Time Table is up next, and while it might not seem as incredible at first (at least, it didn't seem so for me), time has revealed it as just as impressive as the other pieces of the album - just on a more subtle scale. Tony's piano part is soothing and beautiful, the lyrics are profound and universalistic without becoming annoying, and the melody is, again, memorable as hell. Especially the chorus - even if the lyrics make you wince a bit at first, you won't get that hook out of your head for hours afterwards.
Following in its footsteps is the brilliant epic Get 'Em Out By Friday, the story of a future earth run by evil landlords who impose a 4-foot restriction on human height to get twice as many tenents in each building. Tony's keyboard tone is as cheezy as ever, but somehow his keys work here - not just because he finds a neat riff for them, but because, well, such a goofy story deserves a goofy keyboard tone. Meanwhile, Steve's guitar unveils its hyper-distorted-yet-incredibly-clean guitar tone that makes itself known by piercing its way through the mix, and he finds a few interesting solos to latch it onto as well. And of course, a story like this wouldn't be complete without Peter fully playing up to it. From his 'evil overload' cackle to his imitation of the poor, intimidated tenents, Pete makes the already entertaining lyrics come to life as only he could, even making a great imitation of a public service announcer speaking through a microphone. Oh, and needless to say, the music is incredible, as the verse and chorus structure is amazingly complex while being memorable, as usual, and it goes through fast and slow parts with the greatest of ease, so the piece never tires you out. On virtually any album but this one, it would easily be my choice for 'best song' ...
But no, that honor falls to Supper's Ready (the track before it is a pretty acoustic instrumental called Horizons). First of all - Gabriel finally gets a chance to unveil his lyrical talents in all of their splendor, as the piece is 23 minutes long, and ALL the lyrics are Pete's. The lyrics are, roughly speaking, his take on the Apocalypse (the supper referred to is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, spoken of in Revelation), and Pete truly pulls out all of the stops. The song has seven parts (the seven millenia), there are seven 'shrouded men' (seven angels referred to in Rev.), there's Magog, there's the Dragon, there's the Moon turning to blood, and finally there's the King of Kings returned to take his children to the New Jerusalem. And Peter plays up to it fully, displaying his vocal talents to the extent that, even if you have no belief of Christ's second coming, the song moves you totally.
Don't think the song is all serious, though. The last two sections are based around the actual Apocalypse and the triumph of the Lord in the end (section 6 is even called Apocalypse in 9/8), but the rest of the piece is certainly varied in tone. Lover's Leap and Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man are gorgeous ballads and anthems, with an incredibly beautiful guitar line in the former and just a great melody in the second. Of course, the arrangements have a little to be desired (that cheezy keyboard sound does NOT belong in GESM, Tony!), but still, there's absolutely nothing to be sad about from a purely melodical perspective.
Meanwhile, Ikhnaton and Itsacon and Their Band of Merry Men is an entertaining and energetic account of a battle, with some of Hackett's most enjoyable soloing, and some more fabulous Gabriel vox. And then, after a quiet interlude in How Dare I Be So Beautiful?, we enter a world of unfettered whackiness in Willow Farm. I tell you this - you have not truly experienced Genesis until you've watched Gabriel bipping and bopping and kicking and hopping while singing Willow Farm. That said, it's equally entertaining on the actual album - Gabriel's vocals expand and contract in a hilarious manner, his voice hops between stereo channels, and overall he's just so hugely British that it can't help but bring a smile to myself every time.
And then we hit the music of Apocalypse, and catharsis begins to truly set in. Steve's guitar quietly emits calls of warning, Peter plays some tender flute lines, and we build up and build up until we hit Mike's menacing riff while Peter scares the daylights out of you. And just as importantly, Tony has his finest hour yet - his keys do an exquisite job of mounting the tension further and further and further, both in his regular playing and in a couple of not-necessarily-jaw-dropping-on-first-listen-but-still-incredibly-well-written solos. And then Peter sings the next verse, Tony's keys add further to the gloom ...
And then the chimes sound, and the light at the end of tunnel shows up, and Steve takes over with some of the most gut-wrenching parts of his career. The guitar melody underpinning Gabriel's "Can't you feel our souls ignite" verse is astoundingly beautiful, but it only gets better. The CRYING guitar part right before we hear "and he's crying in a loud voice, this is the supper of the mighty one" has brought tears to my eyes at least 50 times, and probably won't stop as long as I live. And the triumphant call of his guitar does an impeccable job of conjuring the image of the band being lifted up and waving farewell to the world as they are carried to the New Jerusalem. It's emotionally devestating beyond words - if you haven't been shaken by this part, listen again, and if you still aren't, then there's something wrong with you.
So ... all in all, this album is friggin' incredible. About 45 minutes of it is pure progressive perfection - cut out Can Utility, and you'd probably get an F (or at least a very very very high E) here. As is, they still had room to improve, so a D it is. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't go out and buy it right now.
PS: A CD-R that I've made of this album that cuts out Can-Utility and replaces it with Twilight Alehouse (found on the first Genesis Archive) is, to my ears, one of the most amazing things I've ever heard. For what it's worth.
Sierrasun3.aol.com
This is even better than Nursery Cryme. I used to think the beginning of
"Watcher of the Skies" sounded a little weak, but I've come to appreciate it
for what it is. It's a good song with some interesting phrasing by Peter. I
didn't think the lyrics were supposed to be funny, though. =)
(author's note): That's why they are.
"Time Table"
is a nice and pretty relaxing track. "Get 'Em Out By Friday" is a creative
song, but it does drag a little bit in the middle. The bass is great on this
one, especially during the first vocals. I LOVE "Can-Utility and the
Coastliners." Everything about this song is good and the whole band shines.
"Horizons" is a pleasant little acoustic piece. "Supper's Ready" is extremely
effective and dramatic and one of the best epics of all time. The opening
"Lover's Leap" creeps me out vocally, lyrically, and musically. But that's a
_good_ thing. Once again, I have to defend Tony's keyboards in "Guaranteed
Eternal..." Hackett's solo in "Ikhnaton..." is quite good. The song slows to
a crawl for the "How Dare I Be So Beautiful?" section, and then WHAM BANG
here comes "Willow Farm". Yikes, this part is cool and...um...weird. The
quiet flute solo between Willow and Apocalypse is nothing short of beautiful.
"Apocalypse in 9/8" does get a bit repititive, but that's okay. There's no
denying the dramatic effect of the closing section, which is one of the most
moving pieces of music ever. Peter really does an awesome job vocally here.
What a great album.
Philip Maddox (slurmsmckenzie.hotmail.com)
I pretty much agree with your review, except I actually like it a bit MORE
than you do - this is my personal Genesis 10, and a 15 on your overall scale
(one of the 6 or so albums in rock history that merits such a high rating
from me). This album is perfect. Absolutely friggin' perfect. Even "Can
Utility", which always struck me as gorgeous and with a stunning climax (not
as good as the Musical Box climax, but still...). And Supper's Ready... wow.
Don't even get me started. Far and away the best side long piece ever
recorded (actually, that's not quite true - Horizons was on the same side on
the original LP, but the sentiment remains), Peter Gabriel turns in what is
quite possibly my favorite vocal performance on any record ever. His vocal
leaps throughout all 7 parts are just breathtaking. I can't even pick a
favorite (if I had to, I'd probably pick either the Willow Farm, Apocalypse,
or As Sure As Eggs Is Eggs parts, but between them, don't even THINK about
asking me to pick). And if there was ever any doubt that Peter Gabriel was
(is?) one of the best lyricists of all time, that track should lay all
doubts to rest - utterly fantastic. I don't want to short change the other
songs here, but I don't want to keep rambling - you said it all above pretty
nicely.
Again, this is a STRONG 10(15) from me, and this is probably among my three
or so favorite albums of all time (if you're wondering, the other contenders
are Live At Leeds, The White Album, Selling England By The Pound, and Thick
As A Brick, though We're Only In It For The Money, Stand Up, Aqualung, and
Magical Mystery Tour are all mighty close).
stray_toasters.juno.com
I already commented about this, the first prog-rock album I ever really
got into, on George's site. But I will say one thing here that I didn't
there: I find the end of 'Supper's Ready' as moving as you do, and I'm
an agnostic. Can DC-Talk do that?
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
Much more consistent than Nursery Cryme songwise. Also, this album seems to
be a bit more balanced instrumentally than previously. What can I say? Once
this album grew on me, just about every track on here can do no wrong for
me. I don't feel like I have too much to say to say about this album that
has not been mentioned before, but a few brief notes. One, the
oft-overlooked (due to its length?) "Horizons" is a pretty classical (I
think) guitar piece from Steve; there are sure enough harmonics played in a
row (check the beginning out!). "Supper's Ready" for some reason seems to
flow quite well for its length. The end does not quite make me cry
(stoicism!?), but nevertheless will blow me every time I hear it - very
worthy to play LOUD (another cathartic moment from Steve)!! Gabriel's
delivery in the Willow Farm section is quite amusing - I'm certain I could
scare my brother with this - it is so wacky! Finally, imagine playing
Apocalypse in 9/8 during a cardio-kickboxing class (or Tae-Bo for that
matter - imagine all the chaos!).
Foxtrot deserves a 9 out of 10 at the very least! Oh, what the heck, 10 out
of 10!! (Why should I be sooo stingy with the 10's? Perhaps because I enjoy
Selling England by the Pound a tad more. But, that would be dealing Foxtrot
some injustice on my part!)
Pablo Agustin Hillar Cazeneuve (p_hillar.hotmail.com) (11/29/01)
One of my favourites. Watcher of the skies and Suppers Ready (the best part:
Apocalypse in 9/8) are those kind of pieces that I feel like an archetype, a
mix of excellent music and power passion. Tony's keyboards sound on Watcher
just mystical and I think that nobody else can do something like that, it's
just Genesis. The lyrics and all the song is great. Suppers ready has too
many parts. For me Lovers Leap and Apocalypse in 9/8 are the best. When I
listen apocalypse I feel a kind of possesion. It is enormous. This piece is
something indecribable, mostly when the keyboard solo become to the end and
the voice explode singnin Six, six, six... (maybe it is like to see the face
of God). The other songs are very good too. Time Table have magic, specially
into the piano parts. Get the out by Friday have a fantastic end and Can
utility is an original song with a good instrumental part.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
Another beauty, not a duff track on it. I, too, Love "Can Utility And The
Coastliners", I don't know what you have against it. "Supper's Ready" -
well, what can one say. It is Genesis' only 15+ min epic, but what a
beaut! "Watcher Of The Skies" is also awesome, and I agree with the chap
who said that parts of "Get Em Out By Friday" drag a little, which is why
this is getting a mere 9.5 out of 10 from me. I don't know what you meant
by the cheesy keys, it's just an ordinary Hammond Organ, it's just that
Tony uses no vibrato. But then again, Keith Emerson virtually never used
much vibrato, so it is essentially the same sound. And if you don't like
the sound of Hammond Organ, what are you dong listening to prog rock?!!?
F. Shaw (fshaw1.cfl.rr.com) (4/21/04)
Hey man you hit the nail on the head, as far as your review of Supper
ready, the song still gives me chills to this day been listening to
this since I was 14-15 , and I'm 40 now, and the part at the end "and
he's crying,.. BLOWS THE TOP OF MY HEAD OFF EVERY TIME !!! Went to my
best friends wedding a few yrs back, and I gave him a video copy of
GENESIS live Oxford And it was incredible to see 10 people, all spawled
out on a hotel bed screaming the lyrics to Supp,. never missing a beat
never missing a line THAT is timeless
Thanks
David Sheehan (dawningistheday.yahoo.com) (05/12/06)
Hi John,
I never understood the criticism of Can-Utility. I have always liked
it--I mean it's not *wonderful*, but it's good. I don't think it can
bring down the rating from a 14, not in my eyes (or ears?). I love
this album, and I think it's Genesis' second best behind Selling
England. Interesting about your CD-R comment, I made one with
Twilight Alehouse too, but I didn't nix Can-Utility, I just stuck
Alehouse between it and Horizons. Anyway, great minds think alike,
right? Cheers.
David Sheehan
Trfesok.aol.com (12/05/06)
Disagreement on the gorgeous mellotron part on "Watcher of the Skies"
-- it's not too long, and certainly adds the perfect outer space
atmosphere. I like Tony's sci-fi lyrics, too. "Supper's Ready"
is the final realization of the ideas Jonathan King planted in the
band at the beginning. From Genesis to Revelation, indeed. "Willow
Farm" was originally as separate song written solely by Gabriel, by
the way -- wonder how fits into the plot? I personally don't think
Genesis ever topped it on a spiritual level or a
prog level. "Horizons" is a nice Steve intro to the piece. The rest
of the songs are nice enough, but a bit too eccentric for
me. Still, the two big numbers add up, by themselves, to make this
another classic.
David Seres (dss9560.yahoo.com) (03/17/07)
First please allow me to say that I am a born-again believer and that
I can enjoy secular music...while I am more often attracted to the
melody, instrumentation and/or arrangement (etc.) of a song, I still
try to be "careful" about the messages of the lyrics and about the
album artwork (because of my spiritual beliefs)...having said this, I
can respect the opinions of others here about Genesis music...but,
while there may be a "consensus" as to what is actually "good" or
"bad" music, I personally feel that a person's like/dislike of an
artist's music may simply be a "matter of taste" - like preferring
chocolate instead of vanilla...also, I may be somewhat "biased" about
Genesis 70's music because at times their sound/style can remind me
of England and Medieval times (both aspects of which I can
enjoy)...still, the England/Medieval thing may not override my
relative like/dislike of a song (for example, "I Know What I Like (In
Your Wardrobe)" from "SEBTP" is still not a personal favorite of
mine)...as for "Foxtrot", I like all the songs on this album (some
more than others)...I find the album production sound somewhat
"unique" (and enjoyable), and, overall, I enjoy the instrumentation
on this album - especially the mellotron/synth(?) sound......I may
have "concerns" regarding some of the lyrics (again due to my own
spiriual beliefs)...I DO enjoy "Can-Untility and the
Coastliners"...and while I may prefer the "Seconds Out" version of
"Supper's Ready" at times, I can still enjoy the "Foxtrot" version
(although the "Willow Farm" section is still not a personal favorite
of mine)...while "Supper's Ready does refer to biblical passages at
points (e.g., the Book of Revelations), I would not use this song
strongly for "spiritual guidance" in the overall sense (because of
"concerns" with other parts of the lyrics)...thanks for taking the
time to read this...blessings to all..
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
See my explanation of Nursery Cryme in reverse. I didn't care for this album at first, but really warmed up to it over time (7th or 8th to 4th or 5th on my rankings). Most of this is helped by my change in opinion on Watcher of the Skies over time. For quite some time, I never cared for this song at all, mostly because I found the Mellotron intro to be overlong and uninteresting. I'm not sure when or how the switch flipped in my brain, but I love it now. Otherwise, everything but Time Table impresses me, and the obvious choice for best track turns out to be the correct one. Suppers' Ready is an unstoppable monster, especially starting at Willow Farm.
Best song: The Knife
Genesis is one of those bands whose live performances have to be seen rather than just heard. Thanks to a kind reader of the site, I was lucky enough to receive, for the low price of $20, an hour-long tape of a British Public Television broadcast showing some live Genesis cuts, and as such have a good idea of the utter lunacy and entertainment that Gabriel and Co. were able to produce on stage. Whether it's Gabriel's costumes or his bouncing around stage or whether it's him whistling "Jerusalem Boogie" before going into Supper's Ready (not to mention the stories), he was always able to utterly captivate the audience.
Alas, though, this album presents us with none of that - no stories, only one piece of stage banter, and only a few small pictures in the booklet. And speaking of small ... this is a single album, and it didn't even expand upon remastering. No Supper's Ready, no Fountain of Salmacis, no ... er, Stagnation I guess. Not to mention that they really should have waited a year to release one ... but that's for later.
So why such an absurdly high grade? Well, because (a) the song selection is oobie-doobie and (b) EVERY one of the five tracks on here improves upon its studio predecessor in some way or another. The keyboard sound of Watcher of the Skies, somewhat murky and corny before, suddenly becomes awe-inspiringly majestic, and the build of the song towards the climax is far better defined than before. And then, we get Get 'Em Out By Friday, whose introduction is nowhere near as clumsy as it might have seemed originally, not to mention that it's fascinating to hear Peter reinvent his vocalizations in such a clever manner.
But the first two tracks are nothing compared to what happens on the next three. Hackett may have been slightly restrained within the studio, but live was an entirely different matter. He's suddenly the most important instrumentalist in the band, and he fully takes advantage of this, building his guitar-god resume even more with each successive song. The opening to Return of the Giant Hogweed, for instance, feels much more 'loose' and less artificial, for lack of a better way to express it. He even embellishes the main part of the song with little guitar 'scrapings' as the weeds rise and seek revenge. And, of course, the main jam is just as interesting as ever.
The Musical Box is up next, and as far as mood and eerieness goes, the first section of the song is even better than it was in the studio, as Gabriel continues to vary his volume and intonations in an unpredictable manner. What makes the song, though, is the middle jam, where Hackett shreds like he never had before, while the manner of feedback employed by all flattens you into the ground (plus, I love that *growl* noise he or Rutherford uses before Steve launches into his solo). His note choices continue to be impeccable, but there's that extra bit of edge and oomph that makes them that much more impressive. Oh, and needless to say, the ending climax is just as fascinating and exciting as ever, though it really is one of those things that has to be seen to be fully appreciated (Gabriel wearing his old-man mask and thrusting his hips back and forth in a humping motion are some of what come on my video).
But none of this compares to The Knife, which was a great and exciting song before the band had its most notoriously talented instrumentalists. Gabriel is just insane on stage, even using some weird vocal distortion effects in places to freak out the audience, but it's not just his manic energy that makes this rendition an absolute classic. Somehow, Tony's opening organ riff seems just that much more menacing and gloomy than before, and Steve ... wow. Wow. He's noisier and faster here than Anthony Phillips could have ever hoped to be, and combined with even more menacing and perfect note choices than on the rest of the record, especially as he makes your heart pump in the seconds before the climax. Which, by the way, is 5 times as intense as it was on Trespass. And the lengthy *baamm* *baamm* *baamm* ending after Gabriel's "WE HAVE WOOOOONNNNN!!!!" is extended, letting you indulge yourself for that much longer.
Now, granted, if you don't really like live albums that much, I guess you might not want to get this, since the songs pretty much follow the same form as before. But if you have a good ear for live performances, then you will have an absolute hoot with this. Heck, buy it before Trespass and Cryme.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
Well, I must say that this album is quite a hoot! Good (if not short!) song
selection. Although the songs seem quite similar to those on the studio
albums, it's amazing how accurately they are played. However, it seems to me
that Peter Gabriel has less punch on "Return of the Giant Hogweed." Big
deal! This album introduced me to "The Knife" - evidence that Genesis could
rock REALLY hard if they wanted to. I absolutely enjoy this versions of this
song (It may worth the price of admission just to get this version of the
song. Who knows? That's my opinion anyway. The original ain't no slouch
though...) Too bad there were not more songs on this record, as well as a
followup to this album BEFORE Gabriel left, i.e., Selling England era songs!
(BTW, Where can one find more of Peter's stage banter?)
Still, an easy 9 out of 10.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
One of the better live albums from the period, sound-wise if nothing
else. Good song selection, powerful performances. Yes, it misses Peter's
stories etc (but I had to laugh the first time I hears Mike's
"unaccompanied bass pedal solo"!) It was possibly too early to put out a
live album but the record company insisted as they were taking their time
with Selling England By The Pound. Also, ever notice Peter changes the
lyrics on "The Knife"? I'd give this 8 out of 10.
Trfesok.aol.com (07/19/07)
It really was premature, and I also would have preferred "Stagnation"
and "The Fountain of Salmacis" instead of "..Hogweed" and "..Friday".
But, I have to agree with the 9, anyway. The performances are really
fantastic. The production and sound quality are terrific. Especially
considering that it was 1973, the same period that Yes and ELP
recorded live albums that sound a good deal worse. On the remaster,
you can especially appreciate the intricacies of Collins' drumming
and Rutherford's (at least at this point) underrated bass playing. I
certainly understand why you'd pick "The Knife" as best song, since
musically, the song takes on new life with Collins and (especially)
Hackett on board. Gabriel also makes some interesting changes in the
lyrics, although I don't necessarily think these improve over the
studio version. Anyway, even though it retreads only 3 albums, these
live versions are strong enough for fans not to mind in the least.
David Sheehan (01/13/12)
A fantastic live album here, but still less good than it could have been. There is an easily-acquired bootleg (digitally, that is…
not sure how easy it is to find a physical copy of it) called ‘Live at Leicester’ (also variously ‘Live at Leicester/Manchester’,
‘Some of You are Going to Die’, and probably other titles) that includes ‘Supper’s Ready’ from the Leicester part of this show
('Hogweed' was from the Manchester show the day before) and a little more banter. The sound is a little more raw, but there aren’t
many differences that I’ve noticed with regard to overdubs and studio editing, but I’ve yet to do a real A-B comparison. I’m not
exactly sure, but it seems from what I’ve read, that the five officially released songs and ‘Supper’s Ready’ were in fact the only
songs recorded for consideration on this album. The bootleg is astounding though, and it’s a shame it wasn’t officially released
this way. The bootleg is sourced from an actual "test pressing" LP that was actually pressed on a full four sides of vinyl, rather
than the three you would expect (the regular Genesis Live LP plus another side for 'Supper's Ready').
I tend to disagree that they should’ve waited a year to release a proper live album though, because after hearing several bootlegs
from both the Foxtrot and Selling England tours, I think the Foxtrot/Cryme material comes off better live than the England material
(more on this on my next reader comment). Plus, they practically dropped ‘The Knife’ from their set during the Selling England
tour, which is a damn shame, frankly. The only way this bootleg's set could be improved from the songs then in their roster would
be to add 'Twilight Alehouse.'
I agree with the D/13 for the official version. The bootleg gets an E/14, at least.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
This is a missed opportunity. If the group had waited one more album to release this, it would've been a possible contender for my all-time favorite live album. Seriously though, with ELP putting out Welcome Back My Friends To The Show That Never Ends and Yes putting out Yessongs, would a double or triple live album really have been that surprising, or more importantly, unwelcome?
It's especially disappointing when you consider that the five tracks on here are all amazing. The Return of the Giant Hogweed and The Knife in particular transcend their studio efforts, and the other three are certainly no worse. But imagine what this could've been with the addition of some more obscure tracks or Selling England material!
Best song: Dancing With The Moonlit Knight
You might not have noticed it, but although I certainly have a healthy dose of respect and love for well-done progressive rock, not ONCE have I given a prog rock album a perfect score - atmosphere and cool instrumentation can take you to the top of the mountain overlooking the land, but they won't let you into Canaan, so to speak. But this album is a different story entirely. NEVER before and never again in the history of progressive rock can one find such a perfect confluence of atmospherics, bombastic and yet clever lyrics, catchy melodies, complicated song structures, and in a wonderous first for Genesis, constantly entertaining and often GORGEOUS arrangements (this album is Genesis' peak in both quality of keyboard playing AND quality of guitar playing, which should tell you something right away) as can be found in this incredible 53 minute piece of British lore.
The arrangements, in particular, are what ultimately set this album above Foxtrot and The Lamb. You may not believe it, but not only do I have absolutely no complaints about Tony's playing on this album, on more than a few occasions I truly believe in the title of genius that many fans have foisted upon him. This is made all the more incredible by the fact that it is on this album that he uses synthesizers for the first time, and while they would be incredibly annoying within 5 years time, here his use of them is always, dare I say it, tasteful, not to mention that he achieves some incredible stretches of cathartic beauty with them. But even with his newfound toys, he still manages to incorporate more piano on this album than any other in Genesis' catalogue, and those passages are usually even more entertaining than his synth playing - bombastic, but sounding like they deserve all their bombast.
Even with all that, though, the full emergence of Steve Hackett is what distinguishes this album the most, as this album is easily the most guitar-heavy in Genesis' catalogue, and given my attitude of "more Hackett is better Hackett," that's so much the better. With very few exceptions, he is ALWAYS playing a major role in the sound, whether it be an incredibly intelligent solo or just plain old solid riffing.
And finally, we have Gabriel reaching the absolute pinnacle of his "medieval British herald" shtick - only 3 of the songs have lyrics by him (well, 4 if you count the closing reprise Aisle of Plenty, which brings back the best parts of the opening track), but as far as his mix of bombast, incredibly British humor and unfettered whackiness go, those three songs are certainly among his peaks. Not to mention that he takes full advantage of the chance to play up to them with his singing - if you thought he was taking on some strange roles and offering weird interpretations before, well, you'd be right, but somehow he managed to outdo even himself.
Another thing that strikes me about the album in general is that, as bombastic as it may be in most cases, it also does an incredible job of deflating itself at the proper intervals so that you never feel overwhelmed by the album. I mean, examine the track order by genre - prog, pop, prog, pop, prog, soothing instrumental, prog, reprise. It's simple, really, yet utterly ingenious (not to mention that the reprise is of just the right themes so that you truly feel complete at album's end).
Ok, NOW for the specific songs. In case you aren't aware of it, the opening Dancing with the Moonlit Knight is probably Genesis' finest song ever, as the lyrics and music mix in such a way that is incredible even for this group. Gabriel probably puts forth his best singing effort yet, and he even gets the chance to sing a capella at the very beginning as he begins the process of magically transporting you back to the England that never was. But other instruments are slowly added, layer upon layer - some keys here, a light touch of acoustic guitar, as we build to the bombastic "the captain leads his dance right on through the night" passage before he launches us into a fabulous instrumental break with the cry "knights of the green shield stamp and shout!" And oh what a passage it is, filled with speedy solos and triumphant calls from Steve's guitar, eventually leading to Tony's mellotron imitating a heavenly choir as Peter begins his "There's a fat old lady outside the saloon" spiel.
Eventually, the sung passages come to an end, and this time, the instrumental parts are driven forward by an utterly brilliant combination of dissonant pounding from Tony and weird tones coming from Steve's guitar that sound like synths the first 20 times you hear them (only seeing live footage of the band doing the song is enough to confirm it otherwise), before it gradually slows down into a peaceful section with Mike playing 4 notes on his acoustic again and again. Tony plays a beautiful sequence of chords while Steve plays his own ambient selection and Peter throws in some lines on the flute, and it fades out nothing like it began, but seeming all the better for it.
And, of course, it is then followed by one of the greatest pop songs of all time, I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe), about a crossdresser who mows lawns for a living. The lyrics are insane yet memorable, the melody is incredibly complex yet catchy, and there are even lawnmower imitations on the bass guitar. But what amazes me most of all, though, is the drumming. It's not even that the part is necessarily very complex - it's that TONE that Phil pulls out of thin air. Never ever ever have I heard a song where the drums sound even remotely like that - how did he DO THAT??!! Inquiring minds want to know, so impart thy knowledge please. (PS: A year later, I've finally figured out that that the coolest parts of the drumming are actually Mike making that upwards *DOY* noise off of Phil's strike. I feel like an idiot for not figuring that out earlier, but whatever.)
Now, what comes next, the epic Firth of Fifth, is a whee bit controversial for me. You see, from a purely musical perspective, I could have easily dubbed this song as Genesis' best ever, and thus the best on the album. Unfortunately, Tony writes the lyrics here, and they're some of his worst to date. Not enough to hurt the album as a whole, of course, but enough to remove a whee bit of shine that the song would otherwise have. No matter, though. As far as melody, arrangements, and especially structure go, it is practically the PERFECT progressive composition. Tony's opening piano line is incredible both in its beauty and its difficulty, the main melody is terrific, and then we have the mid-section. Oh boy, DO we have the mid-section. Peter contributes a pretty flute passage, in comes a relaxing piano section, then a bouncy synth reprise of the opening piano line, and to top it all off, Steve comes in and plays his best known solo. It's not fast at all, but that doesn't hurt it in the least - it's a slow, winding, meticulous passage, with repeated climaxes building up the piece until it all releases itself and the main melody shows up again, followed by a wonderful piano fadeout. Can you say "symmetry" boys and girls? I knew you could.
The next track is probably the biggest surprise of all, actually. More Fool Me is a Collins song (both in composition and singing), but the scary thing is that not only does it not suck, it is an incredibly pretty acoustic-driven ballad. The melody is distinct and memorable, the lyrics aren't too saccharine, and it's pretty much the perfect way to catch your breath after the bombast of Firth of Fifth. In other words, lay off of it people - even Phil could write a good song on occasion.
Side two rolls around, and we get Peter's fictional take on a gang battle in the 12 minute The Battle of Epping Forest. As far as Peter the "psychotic theatrical weirdo" goes, this piece was never topped by Gabriel, as Gabriel pulls out a legion of gangster voices (especially funny is hearing him go, "I'm breaking the legs of the bastard that got me framed!"). And musically, it's fabulous, and honestly never seems overlong to my ears. Tony and Steve are each playing interesting riffs in counterpoint to each other, and Tony comes up with a REALLY good idea with his little trick after each "here comes the cavalry" line, as he makes it easy to see a bunch of 'reinforcments' storming in on horseback to help out.
And don't forget the mid-section, the hilarious nonsensical tale of a reverend who is forced to become a karmamechanic! If you thought there were lots of funny voices in the rest of the song, this passage will absolutely astound you, not to mention that the lyrics are the absolutely whackiest that Gabriel would ever come up with.
Following Forest is a nice instrumental called, appropriately, After The Ordeal. Tony's piano parts in the first half are grand and gorgeous, while the second half relies mostly on various Hackett passages of his usual quality. Overall, while not spectacular by any means, it's still a fully acceptable and even beautiful inclusion onto the album (although I swear that I can hear some quotes of Can-Utility and the Coastliners on there ...). But no matter, because Cinema Show is up as the grand finale. Now don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with those who point out that the opening passage is just a whee bit too similar to the opening of Supper's Ready (in fact, when the band reaches the "na na na na" parts in the middle, it's all I can do to not start singing "I know a farmer who looks after the farm ..."). The lyrics also come from Mike and Tony, so they can't help but be slightly inferior (though the idea of incorporating Romeo and Juliet rather than two incognitos came from Peter). Still, the melody is quite beautiful, and the beauty is sufficient to save the main part of the song on its own.
But that's not the part that everybody adores, now is it? No, it's the lengthy conclusion to the song, which doesn't seem quite right as an end to the song as an individual track, but is DEFINITELY the perfect ending climax for the album as a whole. For the longest time, I was convinced that it was a duet between Tony and Steve, as several of the notes sounded as if they were *plucked* rather than just pressed, but further information has proved me wrong about that. No matter - all that means is that the final stretch of the album is easily Tony Banks' finest moment with the band. EVERYTHING about these keyboard solos exudes a beauty from deep inside - the main theme is incredible, the tones are lovely, the counterpoint near the end is astounding, and, well, I can't begin to express what a well-placed mellotron part does for me. And then the keys slowly fade into the background, as the acoustic line from Moonlit Knight rears its head again, before we say goodbye via Aisle of Plenty.
I don't what else I can say. In writing this, I expended energy and time that probably should have been better used back in 2001 in studying for my Advanced Calculus final, or my Investment Analysis final, or cramming my brain full of 20th Century Russian history and literature (menya zovoot "Reniassance Man"!). But I don't care. This album deserves my best, and while it may take a while to understand why (again, I was mostly unimpressed when I first heard this), you will someday understand as well.
Nick Karn (mjareviews.yahoo.com)
Wow... this time you've really outdone yourself as a
reviewer, nailing the description of this album's
catharic effect PERFECTLY. From a reader's
perspective, this is without a doubt the best review
you've written so far... I'm serious!
I'm even starting to think this album is better than I
give it credit for now, and I give it a 14. But
classic period Genesis is one of those bands that once
you really get into the sound, it NEVER lets go.
Listening to Foxtrot and this album back to back is
absolutely devastating, and it's like no other band in
the world exists afterwards. My two favorite prog
albums of all time may be Images And Words and Close
To The Edge now, but I now think England should be
somewhere up there for me in the top 5 at this point,
and hey, I once considered CTTE only a 13 at one time,
so anything can happen....
As far as member peaks go, I think Tony Banks is at
his best on The Lamb, if only for his choices of tone
throughout the sections of the story that manage to
paint this picture that's intriguing as hell, but I
have to agree there are some stunning passages from
him here (in "Firth Of Fifth" and "Cinema Show"
especially). Gabriel's quintessential lyrical
abilities reached a peak there also (though he NEVER
got crazier in an individual song than "Battle Of
Epping Forest", which is one of the most entertaining
songs ever written).
I do agree, though, that this is a vintage album from
Steve Hackett and Phil Collins, and Mike Rutherford,
as usual, puts on a totally capable performance, yet
he always gets overshadowed by someone else, whether
its' performance-wise or soundwise (just like almost
every other Genesis song). Maybe that's why no one
ever mentions him...
How they could go from this to Wind & Wuthering in 4
years is truly disappointing. But quite not as sad as
Union from Yes, which I finished listening to a few
minutes ago, and... well let's just say I understand
why Rick Wakeman calls it Onion... :(
Robert Grazer (xeernoflax.juno.com)
Ok, I can't agree that this is the best album we ever got from prog rock,
(I'll agree with Nick on Close to the Edge and Images and Words) in fact
I'd give it a 14 and not 15, although I'll say that the album has been
growing on me more and more lately. It still doesn't change the fact that
we're also living in a time when we also have other prog classics out
there. Currently I'd rank it above Fragile, In the Court of the Crimson
King, and Ashes are Burning, and a bit below Thick as a Brick, my three
favorite Yes albums, I & W, and the better parts of Scenes From a Memory.
It might be the best album of '73 though, since I'd rank it above Dark
Side, Quad, and Tales, and those are the only I can think of that even
come remotely close.
I agree with most of what you said about the album itself. "Moonlit" is
probably the best Genesis song out there, although "Firth" and "Epping"
are also really great. The instrumental on "Cinema Show" leading into
"Aisle of Plenty" is incredible, a perfect way to end the album. I may,
as you said, someday appreciate it on the level you do, and "understand"
it all, but for now I'll won't give it more than a high 14, which is a
great rating anyway.
john sieber (oneofakind151.hotmail.com)
"It might be the best album of '73 though, since I'd rank it above Dark
Side, Quad, and Tales, and those are the only I can think of that even come
remotely close." Did you forget about a little thing produced by Emerson,
Lake & Palmer called BRAIN SALAD SURGERY?!?!?! Anyway, well I just got
this CD yesterday and I dont have too much to say, considering this is my
first Genesis album, except, first of all, Peter Gabriel's voice don't hold
a candle to Greg Lake or Justin Hayward, and I even like Jon Anderson's
voice better. But he is at least decent, and better than that fuck Geddy
Lee at any rate. Second, I can see where Kansas got its inspiration for the
orchestral "wall" in most of their music, as Genesis does this rather well
and I'm sure it inspired Kansas a little (not that that makes me dislike
Kansas at all). Third, "Firth of Fifth". Wow. Well, first of all, I
disagree with George Starosin in saying that Kansas ripped off the song in
"Song for America. Second, I will state that this is one of the best songs
I have ever heard in my life. Right up there with "Close to the Edge",
"Echoes", "Karn Evil 9" and "Trilogy". Impressive. To think that a year
ago, I thought Genesis began and ended with Invisible Touch and
Misunderstanding. These guys ain't bad. Yes they are not, though.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
You could not have written a much better review than you did for Selling
England by the Pound. This is the first (and hence any bias?) Genesis album
I ever bought. The opening track blew me away, as did "Firth of Fifth". Tony
Banks plays beautifully in "Firth of Fifth" (especially the introduction),
while Steve Hackett played one of his best solos ever (perhaps it's my
absolute favorite!) Absolutely moving. "The Battle of Epping Forest" shows
Peter Gabriel at his best again (the middle section). The rest of the band
is in fine form as well; I'm especially amused with the opening part (an
upcoming battle!?). What a balance on this record. I will sound redundant if
i say anything more.
But, before I go, I, without a reasonable doubt, give this album an emphatic
10 out of 10.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/21/01)
ah, yes. The middle section of Firth of Fifth. Someone once told me that
music can't be complex and emotional at the same time, so I told them to
listen to Firth of Fifth, the middle section keyboard solo (which is in 13/8)
fills the listener with joy and the way it builds into the part where Steve
joins with his slow trill and Tony's notes an octave higher, by that point it
is true bliss. I cannot imagine even the most average, uninterested soul to
not get some kind of spark of intrigue from this. Oh, by the way, that is
Phil singing "I'm breaking the legs of the bastard who got me framed."
Pablo Agustin Hillar Cazeneuve (p_hillar.hotmail.com) (11/29/01)
Whit a Trick Of the Tail, Genesis and And then there were three is one of
the 4 best albums of the band. Dancing whit the moonlight... and Firth of
fifth are the best. Behind of that: Cinema Show and then I know what I like.
More fool me and After the ordeal make a good partner ship. The battle... is
for me the dark side of the album and i think that it is the weak part.
Aisle of plenty is only a repeat of Dancing...
Peter's voice and the melody of the voice on Dancing whit the moonligt
knigth and the keyborad and guitar solos on firth of fifth are the greatest
moments. The part that start whith this keyboard's voices and then continue
whit "There's a fat old lady..." is fantastic. On firth of fifth, the flute
and keyboard solo in the middle of the song and the Tony's piano
introduction are the best.
kramer (bkramer2000.hotmail.com) (4/15/02)
I have read a lot of reviews by you and George Starostin, among others,
but I have never read a review that was as good as your Selling England
By the Pound review. For one, I agree with everything you have said
about the album and a 15 is an appropriate grade for the album. When I
read your review, though, I had a whole different picture of the album.
I used to listen to this (and most progressive rock) purely for the
musical points, but I ignored the lyrics for the most part. However,
your praise of Gabriel's lyrics really made me pay more attention to
them. I still love the album for the music, probably more than any album
ever, but the lyrics really are great on a lot of the songs, and it gives
me more of a reason to appreciate the album.
As for your comment about going all out to write the very best review you
can, giving all of your feelings on the album, I totally agree that this
deserves it, and few other albums do (I can think of four, maybe five).
So, if you want, write 500 more pages on SEBTP and I will read every word
and take into consideration what you say about it. Thank you very much
for taking the time out to write a full and complete review of one of the
greatest pieces of music that has been given to us.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
Well, for studio albums they were three for three in terrific albums with
this one! My favourite song is "Firth Of Fifth", closely followed by "The
Cinema Show". "Dancing" is great, although I am not a huge fan of the
ending, it drags a little for me. "The Battle Of Epping Forest" is not
one of my favourite things by the band, yes the lyrics are witty but the
music is a little clunky, unlike Yes or King Crimson, Genesis were never
spectacularly good with odd time signatures. I'd give it 9 out of 10.
Peter Ross (prog_man2.yahoo.com) (10/29/02)
Forgive me, John, but I just cannot for the life of me
get into this album. I bought it based entirely on
your review, and no matter how many times I listened
to it, most of the songs blew past and didn't make
much of an impression on me. However, "The Battle Of
Epping Forest" rules, and that alone makes this album
worth it for me...as does "More Fool Me." I'll have
to give it only a 7(10) on your scale. Sorry.
"Fernando H. Canto" (sirmustapha.ig.com.br) (2/26/03)
Fabulous. Simply fabulous, one of the most 'complete' and well balanced albums
I've ever heard. Dancing With The Moonlit Night is complex, full of different
sections and moods, and it works, never goes over the top. It's what Supper's
Ready would probably sound like if reduced to 8 mins. Though I like Firth Of
Fifth better. It's more relaxed and each section gets more time to develop
itself. Lyrics? The hell with lyrics, that piano opening and the guitar lead
crush the lyrics before they can annoy me. The Battle Of Epping Forest is even
more fun, like someone gave steroids to Get 'Em Out By Friday. I like the way
the song flows so flawlessly and pleasantly. Not a second is wasted, and all the
melodies rule. Then, we have the minor songs that are just as great. I Know What
I Like (In Your Wardrobe) should be placed in a high pillar and be held as an
example of how pop songs should be. THAT is a great pop song. It should be
playing on MTV! And cheers for More Fool Me, too. A guitar and vocal song can
hardly be better than this. Phil's voice is weirdly pleasant here, too. After
The Ordeal? Beautiful, just beautiful. Both guitar melodies are priceless. It's
an ingenious move to alternate the epics with the minor songs. And The Cinema
Show is a very appropriate closing to the entire album, and I agree with you
when you say the long instrumental finale does not only close the song, but the
whole album. I feel like all songs are melding together and finishing THERE.
But... with Aisle Of Plenty, it feels like the album simply didn't finish at
all. What a fabulous album structure we have here.
Nickrj.aol.com (8/17/03)
Dancing With The Moonlit Knight rules here. I Know What I Like (In Your
Wardrobe) is a pretty good pop song. Firth Of Fifth has beautiful playing by
Tony and Steve. More Fool Me has Phil singing beautiful falsetto and Mike is
very good on guitar. The Battle Of Epping Forest is my favorite. After The
Ordeal is pretty good instrumental. The Cinema Show I don't care for the first
half that much but the second half rules and it is Tony's best playing probally
of his career. Finally the album ends the same way it began with Aisle Of
Plenty.
A classic album that everyone should listen too at least once. 10(15!)
Peter Ross (prog_man2.yahoo.com) (10/21/03)
Well, I'm an idiot. After giving this album a few
more listens, that's what I was saying to myself. It
completely grabbed hold of me and shoved its greatness
into my brain, and now I can honestly say I love every
single track. From the sheer heavenliness of "Knight"
to the slightly psycho "IKWIL" to the tasteful bombast
of "Fifth" to Phil's pretty "Fool" and Pete's crazy
"Battle" and the gorgeous "Ordeal" and lengthy bombast
of "Cinema" and the neato reprise of "Aisle," it's one
hell of a journey. I thusly raise my grade to 10 (15).
Eduardo Gutiérrez B. (egutierrez.intmon.com) (2/25/04)
I guess reviewers have said it already and better than i could. However, i think that in order to highlight the quality of this album, we should compare them to the so-called greatest progressive albums. First of all, this album is composed of the most desired attributes in progressive rock. It´s got complex and inteligent song structures, enjoyable tunes and melodies, great playing, multiple changing of time signatures, originality as far as style goes, energy and a fresh feelling throughout. This album can be called unique since it was never immitated nor improved by anyone within its style, not by Genesis itself either.
On the other hand, "better" than what you ask?. Let´s say, better than "In the court of the crimson king". It may not have a single song as greatly played as "21st. century" but it also doesn´t have a single second as boring and absurd as the 10+ minutes of "moonchild". While "21st. century" is about the only 100% attention demanding on that album, "Selling England" is filled with at least 3 songs full of diverse, inspired and imaginative passages. Furthermore, "Selling England" displays the most ever respected capability Genesis ever had, writing skill. I mean that ability to write music within very different styles, sounds, etc. "In the court" might have been the startpoint to all progressive bands, yet, king Crimson was not succesfull at creating a trully different style other than that. Genesis on the other hand, came from recording a bizarre Foxtrot, nothing similar to the "Selling England" sound and style, and went on to writing a remarcably different "The Lamb". While "In the court" was the raw material to every King Crimson Album to date, "Selling England" was their 5th. album and that´s it, no more no less, with a personality of it´s own. Would you dare saying "In the court of the crimson king (THE SONG)" is coparable to "Cinema show" ?. I think after the ordeal has much more to stick with.
Compared to "The dark side of the moon". Well, we´d have to ask ourselves wether that album is progressive at all. Is it?. Isn´t it just Classic rock in a fusion with; first, a lot of media support, and secondly, a pretentious desire by the band?. As pretentious as to call this album progressive (a more pretentious genre than classic rock). Anyway, lets consider it progressive. The same way critics and music researchers call Pink Floyd "progressive" as a whole, in a generic way of course, though they are not aware they are. "Dark side" is a great album nonetheless. However, it is great only if listened as a whole. Take "Us and them" as an example. It sure is a very enjoyable song, with hook tunes throughout. yet, the playing is quite simple with no rythm changes nor complex arrangements whatsoever. That can´t be called progressive by no means. Progressive or not, it is a fine song with a great melody depending strongly on mood and atmosphere rather than on trully writing skills as in on, say, "Firth of fifth". Being the last, at least in my mind, a more enjoyable song than "Us and them". Has anyone noticed that the only "tough" and technic demanding on "Dark side" lies-down on "Money"?. Which by the way has a very simple structure with barely no rythm changes. "Money" is a song that stands out only for one reason, it is the only loud song on the record ¡¡, and also because it´s received thousands of favourable reviews and because it´s on every single live album by the Floyd. listen to it, you won´t deny that the only element that gives this song a feeling of complexity, is Gilmour´s strong guitar going from one side to another. If this is to be the most progressive moment on "Dark Side", let me tell you friends, there are no real and authentic progressive elements here. Would you dare comparing "Eclipse" or "Brain damage" to "Dancing with the moonlit knight" and "Cinema show" face to face?, second to second?. "Dark side of the moon" would fail miserably that´s for sure. Did i forget about "Time"?, is it an anthem?, i like it of course. However, there is nothing beyond it´s "beauty" that really deserve the hundred percent of my attention through the headphones. As a matter of fact, i need no more than a 50%, the one required for listening to the melody.
A Yes Album?. What about their best proposal?, "Fragile". Well, I have to grant on one very important subject on this one, the instrumentation and playing. Although Genesis are no mediocre instrumentalists whatsoever, they are definitely no better than "Yes", whose individual skills are well known for taking the notes to the edge. But that´s the end of the advantages of "Fragile" over "Selling England". Now. While virtuoso Instrumentation and fast rhythm changes are some of the basic elements of prog, they are not the only ones, and YES made sure to fail on diversity of style and sound in further years from 1971. Whatsmore, they failed at giving diversity within the songs on this album. Also, it´s not that Genesis have no fine instrumentation and rhythm diversity, it´s only that their´s are featured in a mildly lesser degree. After all, when making a list of the classic prog bands, Genesis is among the first 5 or 6, 7 at the most best instrumentalists, along with YES itself, King Crimson, EL&P, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull and Van Der Graaf. Sorry Pink Floyd. Genesis´ instrumental peak might not be at the same level as YES´, or King Crimson´s or Gentle giant´s. However, I dare to say Genesis was more consistent on that same field and what is more important yet, they were way more creative at making different styles, sounds, moods and atmospheres within their discography than all those mentioned above.
Ok, back to the "Selling England" vs. "Fragile" topic. "Heart of the sunrise" is impressive at first listens, its playing is masterful with an innitial loud, interesting and exiting, yet, repetitive interaction of all the instruments. The sudden pauses between the instrumental parts are something to wonder at. Nevertheless, this trick becomes such when used over and over throughout the song, only with a more quiet and lyrical moment to rest somewhere arround the third minute. What does that tell you?. It tells me YES couldn´t afford an 8 minute song with more than two musical ideas (The hard and interesting, yet brief and repetitive playing, and the lyrical and pleasant softer parts). YES required to wear out a great, and their best trick to pull out this song. Had they made it a 3 minute song out of this idea, it would have been the best among the other 5 little songs in the album. This means lack of creativity by YES. Genesis on the same issue, featured songs like "Battle of epping forest" full of lyrical and musical ideas never to be repeated, or for a better match, "Dancing with the m.k.". See why YES´output doesn´t stand a chance?. When YES makes a song like "The heart of the sunrise" with so few musical ideas, it seems like they wanted just to impress the audience as mere good performers disregarding anything concerning composition or imagination. After listening to it many times, the same, once interesting and colorful instrumentals, now makes me wonder wether they cut and pasted the same notes all over the 8 minutes.
Now, "Roundabout" is just fine. Some of YES fans say it has a lot of hooks and I agree, those hooks make the song "half-a-pop-song". Now seriously, "Roundabout" still features the great instrumental skills by YES´ members, as well as their biggest deficiencies. Like again, their poor writing. The bass is great though. The other interesting song would be "long distance ronaround" which is basicaly the same story as "Roundabout". The other 5 mini songs are just little individual ditties that could well, have been the product of messing around with the instruments during the recording sessions. If this is not enough to making my point, just match one song against another from "Selling England" and see for yourself.
One album that could represent a serious match is "Tarkus" by EL&P. It´s full of imagery, it´s diverse in terms of style, sound, mood and atmosphere, it´s even fun to listen to. EL&P´s instrumental skills are flawless also. Why would "Selling England" be better ?. "Selling England" is way more accesible and enjoyable. I mean, I like "Tarkus´" style and kinda-ugly sounds as much as I like Genesis´. But I have to admit that in order to get to that, I had to go through many listens to finaly get an aquired taste for it. Take the next statement lightly; "Selling England" is beautiful while "Tarkus" is a hard bone to gnaw.
I guess it´s a matter of taste anyway, it´s fun making considerations regarding music and that´s why we all have something to say in this fan page.
Adam Kaddoura (akad678.hotmail.com) (07/02/06)
I'm sorry to break the trend of complete love for this album, but I don't
think it's the best prog album ever or even Genesis' best. I bought Selling
England By The Pound on both your and George's recommendation years ago, and
it's still somewhat disappointing after listening to it so many times.
Don't misunderstand me - I do like it, quite a lot, but it doesn't really
match the quality of Foxtrot, Fragile, Close To The Edge, Red, Relayer, or a
few other prog records I can think of.
I love the first side of Selling England. "Dancing With The Moonlit
Knight", while maybe not the best Genesis song ever (I would go with
"Supper's Ready", I guess), is nevertheless great - I think that lyrically
and musically, it's the culmination of the "British fairytale" style they
started with "The Musical Box". And it's nice to hear a progressive rock
song that addresses actual societal problems. As much as I love Yes, for
example, the esoteric nature of their music can sometimes be annoying. "I
Know What I Like" is the best poppy song by a prog band in the early 70's
that I've ever heard, and "Firth Of Fifth" is majestic and contains my
favorite guitar solo ever, courtesy of Steve Hackett. "More Fool Me" is a
first-rate ballad, and I can't believe that the same guy who wrote this song
went on to record "Sussudio" a decade later. What happened, Phil?
If the second side of Selling England were as near-perfect as the first, I
would give it a 14 without hesistation. But I reach the second side, and
I'm hit by "The Battle Of Epping Forest", a twelve-minute excuse for Peter
to use his character voices because he couldn't slip them into any other
song on the record. Now, I enjoy "Willow Farm" a lot, probably more than I
should, but 12+ minutes of funny Gabriel voices without anything else to
grab onto musically is just too much.
"Cinema Show" is also a bore; I'm much more intrigued by "Musical Box" or
even "Can-Utility And The Coastliners" than this one. If there ever was
filler for early 70's Genesis, these songs would define it. I've tried to
get into them, but they pass me by completely. "After The Ordeal" is a nice
piece, though.
I would have to give Selling England an 8(12), then. The first side is
amazing, but I have to agree with Ryan Atkinson on the second side - I
always lose interest once "Epping Forest" begins. But who knows? Maybe one
day I'll recognize the perfection that the rest of you hear in this album.
Kolby Kramer (gkkramer.gmail.com) (12/05/06)
Kudos man, you nailed it! Your review of this album is absolutely
glowing! Each time I hear it, especially the ending to Dancing With
The Moonlit Knight, the hair on the back of my neck stands on end
from the sheer radiance of it all. Peter, when given the pen and
paper, really mixes his creative juices well in this musical
smoothie. His lyrics, his vocal work, his woodwind work are all
absolutely tremendous. Phil's drumming is subtle, yet subliminal.
Tony is at his creative peak on the keyboards for this one, and as
for Hackett: I honestly believe that there is no other guitarist,
living or dead, who could've pulled this all together other than
him. His guitar work on this was simply his best with the band, and
it manages to draw you in and captivate you entirely. Last, but not
least, Mike secures the foundation with his magnificent bass work.
This is definitely one of my favorite albums ever, and it makes me
glad to be alive to hear it. I have read through your site, and
other reviews, and I must say this one breaks the mold and stands out
to me; it really seems like your heart and soul was poured into it,
and it paid off well. Thank you for such a marvelous and in-depth
review, John.
Trfesok.aol.com (08/02/07)
I agree with you on a number of points. First, these is, indeed, the
best sounding album by the group up to this point. The production and
arrangements are absolutely gorgeous. In total agreement about Tony's
acoustic piano playing, which really hasn't been this prominent since
the second album. There's also, I also agree, the best balance
between guitars and keyboards of any Genesis album. The band playing
is tight and the musicianship is fantastic.
But, of course, it still comes down to the songs in the end. They're
good, of course, but I just don't think they hit the peaks of the
previous three studio albums. "Dancing.." and "Firth of Fifth" go for
it, but they don't quite reach the majesty and power of "Watcher of
the Skies", "Supper's Ready", "The Fountain of Salmacis" or "The
Musical Box." I've always found "I Know What I Like" a bit annoying.
"More Fool Me" is interesting (although "For Absent Friends" is
better), although Collins sings in a range that's slightly too high
for him.
So, I find it to be just a very good Genesis album, rather than their
all time best.
Ricky Flahive (therickyman.hotmail.com) (10/26/08)
Wow, such a overrated album. I'm with Capn Marvel; the Lamb is better.
Moonlit Knight-Best song, one of only two great songs here
I Know What I Like-meh, crappy sound; like a garage recording. But catchy
Firth of Fifth-god thats a fucking stupid name, but the music is
jawdropping.
More Fool Me-eh, better then IKWIL at least
Epping Forest-good, but 5 minutes overlong
Ordeal-Nice Filler
Cinimuh Show/Pleny-Starts boring as hell, but the jam: holy hell!
anyway it's good, but not great: 8 (12)
"matt faris" (7headedchicken.gmail.com) (09/13/10)
Great review. I'd have to agree with pretty much everything you said,
except I think I might love the album even more than you do. It did have to
grow on me, though. One of my favorite things about this album besides the
unbelievably awesome composing, (yes, composing, not just writing) is the
moog (I think that's a moog) sound that Tony Banks uses throughout. If I
were to record a proggresive rock album, it would be sure to include this
sound. "The Battle Of Epping Forest" may be one of their all-time best,
especially the part that starts with "it's 5-4 on William Wright", and the
great Hackett solo at the end. I also think the groove that they get into
during "Aisle Of Plenty" is very different for them, and ahead of it's time,
especially thanks to Collins. This album often threatens (very gently and
pastorally, of course) to take the place of *Foxtrot* as my favorite Genesis
album.
Sheehan, David (08/13/11)
I can’t seem to share your absolute adoration of this album, though admittedly it’s very, very good. There was a time when I
preferred this to Foxtrot (see my old comment above), but I really think that was a product of a) hearing this many more times than
any other Genesis album at the time (it was my introduction to the band), and b) you and George telling me it was the best Genesis
album (I am easily swayed). But time has seen this one grow off of me to the point where it’s probably a former-14 at the absolute
best, and maybe even “only” a high former-13. There aren’t any bad moments on the record, and the musicianship and production are
both pretty much flawless. I just see this a step down in creativity from Foxtrot, which was absolutely crammed with musical ideas
(especially “Supper’s Ready”). Plus compared to the wallop of the last 7 or 8 minutes of “Supper’s Ready”, the finale of Selling
England, to me, seems a bit anticlimactic. Speaking of, I wanted to comment on your observation about the ending jam of “The Cinema
Show”/”Aisle of Plenty” being best viewed as the end of the album as a whole rather than just of the song itself. I agree, and
evidently the band did too, initially at least. Unless I’m mistaken, the original LP pressings of this album had “The Cinema
Show”/”Aisle of Plenty” combined as one 12:37 length closing track. I’m pretty sure that the initial CD release reflected this as
well. I’m not sure when the “Aisle of Plenty” stand-alone track originated.
Dave
Steven Highams (rawdon.lilly.gmail.com) (02/13/13)
I hate to run with the pack, but I think this is the best Genesis record for all the reasons people usually give, though mainly
because you can hear everyone here and it sounds like an actual group effort, with no one being marginalised. If you need any
proof that the band wasted Steve Hackett’s talents, you will find it here, because he really shines on this record. If they had
used him to the max on A Trick Of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering, those albums would have turned out much better and he might have
stayed in the band, though I get the impression that the other three didn't want that to happen for some reason. Maybe his face
didn't fit. This stuff happens, unfortunately.
‘Dancing With The Moonlit Knight’ and ‘I Know What I Like’ make for the finest one-two opening on any Genesis record (and it
doesn't get any worse, I might add), and Tony Banks proves here that less is indeed more. Unfortunately, he forgot that lesson
pretty quickly.
Matthew Dean (mac.dean.icloud.com) (02/13/17)
Hi John! Long time reader of your site but rare commenter Matt here (-: Y'know it's funny - even though i agree with you (and George) that this is the quintessential (and best) genesis album - and that it's the best place to start with the Gabriel era - this album still took a loooong long time for me to appreciate it to the extent you both (and millions other of course) do. For a long time i felt that the first half of the album (Moonlit Knight to More Fool Me) was the best stretch on any Genesis album - and actually one of the best i've ever heard by anybody. It's perfect basically(if you ignore Tony's dire lyrics to Firth of Fifth that is, which is easy to do i think as they're just intented to set a mood anyway - the music is clearly meant as the star show!). However for years and years i simply could not understand what you were talking about when it came to the Battle of Epping Forest... everytime i listened to the album this song was just an overlong (and overly complex) mess that would also spoil the mood and just send me to sleep... and then i'd find i'd wake up on Aisle of Plenty and feel really disappointed by it (and frustrated that i couldnt get into it (the second half of the album that is)).
Then, one day i bought the remastered cd and listened to it and found - to my surprise - that i really liked Epping Forest! The new mixing meant that the song had way more energy and there were other things too - like i could hear Steve's clever guitar lines and Peter's (many) voices more clearly than before. AND... I found that this was the key to 'getting into' the whole album! As 'Forest' had loads of energy and was really fun, After the Ordeal worked really well after it (as I'm sure the band intended it to) and this in turn meant the Cinema Show worked really well as a 'grand closer' to the album - rather than the boring pointless mess i used to think it was (actually that's a bit harsh - rather it just sounded like that in comparison the masterpieces on the first half). I used to regard this album as a solid B but now it's definitely an E (though i could be presuaded to give it higher) and i guess what i'm trying to say from this long rant is thanks for taking the time to write these reviews as it means that people like me that might write off albums might give it another go and find another way to appreciate them. I still struggle with the second half of the Lamb I'm afraid (the whole album's still a B to me - despite that i similarly love the first half of it... but eh... I still can't get into stuff like the Lamia )-: ) but hey that's my problem! (-:
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
Their absolute peak. Everything comes together perfectly in this album, every piece fits exactly as it is supposed to, and the end result is the finest 50 minutes of prog rock compiled for sale to the listening public. Any of the four epics could be considered the best track, though Dancing With the Moonlit Knight and Cinema Show both shine slightly brighter for me, and the shorter tracks sustain interest and intrigue enough for them to be not just good, but essential.
Best song: The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
There are two basic ways to follow up perfection - one is to continue to milk the style in which said perfect album was done for all it's worth, the other is to veer in a new direction all together. Genesis, smart band that they were, chose the second route. The result was a double-length rock opera and an album proclaimed by many fans as the absolute pinnacle and culmination of Gabriel-era Genesis. And it is great, don't get me wrong. But the fact remains that in many, many ways, it is a giant abberration in Genesis' development, one only tangentially resembling the style in which they had shown the greatest mastery. In other words, choosing this as Genesis' best album is a lot like choosing Relayer as Yes' best - I mean, it's definitely possible, and I would never condemn either statement (not to mention that I adore both albums), but ... ehn.
Ok, first things first, I won't go over the story in too much detail here (except when I have to) - there are plenty of lengthy essays of interpretation and explanation of The Lamb to be found on the net (I would highly recommend going here - my interpretation mostly matches with this one, though I have a few additional insights, like the symbolism behind the hairy heart). Suffice it to say that it rules, both on the surface (as one of the trippiest tales ever told) and deep below (as a powerfully religious modern-day story loosely reminiscient of Dante's Inferno). And although many have said that Gabriel went overboard with it as far as complexity goes (in fact, all of the lyrics, with the exception of those to The Light Dies Down on Broadway, come from Peter), I've never bought that - after a couple of readings through the booklet and one listen to the album, I understood the basic plot just fine, thank you.
But what about the music? Like I said, there is a great amount of distance between the stylistics here and on England. The bulk of the music was written by Tony and Mike, with Steve only helping to arrange it, and as a result there is an enormous dropoff in the fundamental importance of Steve to the sound. It's not like he's made invisible or anything, and he does have a few passages where he is more-or-less emphasized, but even then there are very few instances of "vintage Hackett" - he's playing his slow meticulous passages, but only on a few occasions do they have the power and bite that he had shown on the previous album (the very end of his Supernatural Anaesthetist solo is the most notable one - view the contrast between the last chunk and the rest of the solo). His playing is mostly reduced to texture and atmospherics, and while he does a very good job in these regards, his presence as a featured player is kinda missed.
The main focus of the album, then, is on the Banksynths. But, and this is a big but, for the most part they work. Large chunks of the story are very dark, murky and often take place in sub-earthly realms, and Banks' keyboards do a mostly impeccable job of scene-setting (I actually thought for a long time this was due to the presence of Brian Eno, who is credited with "Enossification" on the album, but as a reader below points out, the instrumentals have nothing to do with Eno). But regardless of who came up with most of these ideas, although the abundance of keys squeezes out Steve to a far greater extent than had yet happened, it's hard to complain here when the ominous mellotrons and moody pianos work so well.
Now, as far as the actual songs go, my main problem with the album lies with the instrumentals: there are four of them on this album, and only one of them manages to hold my attention throughout (side 2's Hairless Heart, which has a sick, perverse beauty glistening off of every note). The thing is, the remaining three all fit in well with the general flow of the story, but I don't think anybody would want to argue that they couldn't have each been cut to a minute and a half or so (especially the total cacophony of The Waiting Room, which is supposed to reflect Rael's paranoia in the dark cave but is probably 4 or 5 times too long). Same goes for the pretty Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats and the ominous, "windy" Ravine. Good plot-setters and mood-setters, to be sure, but not much else.
But the rest, well, the rest is just great. The uber-classic, of course, is the opening title track - from the fabulous opening piano line to the incredible vocal delivery by Peter (dig especially the way he sings "RAEL IMPERIAL AEROSOL KID") and the catchy melody of the song, it does a terrific job of hooking in the listener right away, preparing him for the arduous journey ahead. The next track, Fly on a Windshield, is also amazing, particularly the way the music actually makes the strange story in the booklet come to life; in particular, I'm referring to the way we have "and I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for the windshield on the freewaaay" ... and then *SPLAT* as Phil begins pounding a simple but intense rhythm (driving a jam underpinned with fantastic synth chords and Hackett at his best). And, of course, don't forget the trippy Broadway Melody of 1974 that follows it, or the cute little ditty Cuckoo Cocoon.
Closing out side one is In The Cage, found ugly by some but just wonderful by me. The opening is quiet and gentle, with Rael (the main character) feeling queazy and unable to move, while the rest of it builds and becomes more menacing (especially after the Thick as a Brick style bassline for a couple of measures that pops up to launch us into the rest of the song) until you have overwhelmingly disturbing and intensely real images of things like his dead brother John slowly turning his head towards him while crying blood. BUT, BUT, the part of the song that I love the most comes at the very end, and maybe I'm just imagining it, because nobody else has ever mentioned it, but here goes anyways. You will recall that the end of this song ends in very quiet instrumental noodling that doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the song. Now, when was the last time we had passages specifically like that? Anybody? Anybody? The answer is ... From Genesis to Revelation. Now, given that, even if the album wasn't meant as a real religious metaphor, the band probably would have realized that it would be taken as such, and if so, what a NEAT self-reference (especially since FGTR was their first big religious spiel). Of course, maybe I'm just looking for meta that isn't there, but whatever - I think it's cool.
Side two is slightly weaker, but still thoroughly entertaining. The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging is a cute little pop song with a neat chorus hook, while the following Back in NYC (which is Rael watching a "viewing" of his own life) has a bit of 'ugliness' to it, but dagnabit, it conveys the hopelessness and ugliness of his former life perfectly (not to mention that the experiences of his life are essential for understanding why he needs to go through what he goes through). And, of course, following Hairless Heart comes the hilarious pop song Counting Out Time, which describes Rael's preparation for his first sexual encounter by buying a textbook on the subject but still striking out in the end. I mean, how on EARTH can anybody resist a song whose chorus is "erogenous zones I love you, without you what would a poor boy do?" Well, unless you're as much of a prude as I'm probably supposed to be, but no matter ... The melody is catchy as a cold, not to mention that Peter's vocalizations are beyond hilarious.
Up next is an absolute classic in Carpet Crawlers. The melody is pretty, with a nice soft organ washing underneath it, but what truly makes the song is the harmonies (well, and Steve's quiet pretty textures weaving in and out). Peter and Phil work in perfect compliment with each other, as Phil hits all sorts of wonderful high notes while Peter's dark, expressive singing drives the song forward and inevitably brings tears to your eyes, even though the song itself only bears a very small place of importance in the plot. Not so with the last song on the disc, though, The Chamber of 32 Doors. Basically, Rael keeps trying door after door, but each one of them leads him straight back into the chamber, and Peter does an impeccable job of conveying his tearful frustration with the situation, as well as with the fact that everybody is calling out different directions for him to go but that he can't bring himself to trust any of them. He can't even bring himself to trust his own parents, which should tell you something.
After the melancholy of 32 Doors, side two opens with a blast thanks to the pop-rocker Lilywhite Lilith. Granted, it's only great for the first two-thirds of it or so, but HOO what a bunch of hooks! Which is a good thing, because hooks aren't coming again for a good while. After the agony of The Waiting Room, we come upon Anyway, which is Rael philosophizing about his wretched fate and about waiting for the reaper to show. I disliked this a little at first, but it makes for incredible gloomy atmosphere, and I love it to pieces now. Here Comes The Supernatural Anaesthetist, on the other hand, is at least funny, not to mention that it has some more wonderful backing harmonies from Phil and the aforementioned solo from Steve.
The centerpiece and most beautiful song on this side, however, is The Lamia. The melody is complicated but even more gorgeous than anything on England (just a lot more mellow), while the lyrics, describing Rael's experiences with these half-women-half-snakes, are sickening in a powerful sort of way. How else can I describe a song in which the women begin to nibble his flesh, shrivel up and die at the first taste of his blood, and then where Rael eats them because he's hungry??!! Plus, there's another very nice Steve solo here (at the end).
Following the instrumental Silent Sorrow ... we hit The Colony of Slippermen, and the story goes from strange to totally messed up. Essentially, Rael's pleasure from the Lamia was so intense that his body is going into a horrible withdrawl from its absence, and he has come across a whole colony of people who are suffering the same fate. He learns from one of these people that in order to get his body back to normal, he must remove the source of his problem - his "love rocket." And so, he and his brother John, whom he has just met again, go to the doctor and get castrated (this part features the beautiful line, "don't delay, dock the dick! I watch his countdown timer tick ...",) with their shlongs placed in a tube that they can wear for posterity. Alas, a raven comes down and grabs the tube from Rael (with Tony's keyboards doing a fine job of displaying the chaos surrounding this event). Rael then tries to catch up with the raven, though John declines to help him, only to watch the raven drop his tube into the river far below.
After the instrumental Ravine, we come to The Light Dies Down on Broadway, incorporating melodies from both the title track and The Lamia (so, of course, it just can't fail to rule). At this point, Rael sees an opening to take him back to his home, but as he runs towards it, he hears John crying for help in the gorge below him. He has to choose at this time to either save his brother's life or go back home - Rael chooses to save his brother's life. Which leads us to the funny and jolly Riding The Scree. Tony's keyboards are terrific here, from the wonderful sparks that fly from his hands in the beginning to the corny-but-better-for-it pseudo-heroic self-mockery at the end. And of course, it has another one of Gabriel's most memorable vocalizations, "Evil Knievel you got nothing on me" (it should be noted also Knievel was not yet a household name in '74; this is another impressive sign of cultural awareness on Peter's part).
And, last but certainly not least, we have the last two tracks on the album. In The Rapids has a beautiful, subdued melody, and even with the purposeful muffling of his vocals, Gabriel does yet another terrific job of moving you deep inside. And, of course, it contains one final and totally strange plot twist - as Rael drags his brother onto the shore, he looks into John's face ... and sees his own. He and his brother then fade away into the mist, into it, which happens to be the name of the last track. Featuring more energy in this one track than can be found on the rest of the disc, it would be difficult to think of a better ending to the album than it, from the great guitar runs to the simple-but-ingenious main riff, and especially the clever allusions to all that which is good and pleasurable in the universe (I especially love the line, "it is chicken, it is eggs, it is in between your legs").
And that's it - that wasn't so complicated was it? Er, maybe it was, as I think I wrote even more for this album than for England. No matter - point is, it's a really really really great album. But England is better.
PS: After the band toured this album, Peter left for good, essentially citing fears that the band was about to become too popular for its own good and for his own comfort. *sniff* Goodbye, Peter - thanks for the memories, and see you on your solo page.
Joel Larsson (joel.larsson.privat.utfors.se)
An excellent album! The most excellent thing with it is that it came out
after another excellent album, and is excellent in another way.
Complicated, I know, but I've always have problems with getting my
thoughts into English.
I especially like the title track, "Counting out time", "Back in NYC",
"The carpet crawlers", "The grand parade of lifeless packaging",
"Hairless heart"... well, most of the first disc. On the second is the
standard a bit lowered, but still there are a lot of strong numbers. I
don't have time to get this comment complete, my humble apologises and
goodbye.
Unclemeat (unclemeat3.home.com)
I agree with most of what you said about Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, except
that I think it is the best album by genesis.
simply gorgeous.
What I find odd is that I cannot pick a song of off LLDOB that I like by
itself. When I listen to the recording, I have to listen to the whole
thing.....
example, you could put on FOXTROT and listen to Suppers Ready and be
okay.....LLDOB is different.
stray_toasters.juno.com
The first disc is perfect. I don't see the hatred for 'Back in NYC'
either. The notes may be repetitive but after a couple of minutes it
picks up.
The second disc is less memorable than the first disc, but there's still
some great songs, like 'Lillywhite Lilith', 'Supernatural Anaesthetist',
'Lamia', and of course 'Colony of Slippermen'. I used to like 'Waiting
Room' a lot, but not so anymore(I was probably impressed with it because
it was the first song of its kind I heard. At this point I'd prefer
Interstellar Overdrive). Then there's 'It', another perfect album
closer. This has a similar effect on me as does the end of 'Supper's
Ready', and it gives the feeling of Peter waving goodbye while fading
into the sunset. Really exciting considering the relative boredom on the
second disc.
Now, Pete is good at mystifying us so that we don't know what he's really
thinking, but I'm pretty sure the lyrics to 'It' are an admission that
the whole story is fluff and anyone trying to interpret it has been
completely fooled. With lines like, "If you think that its pretentious,
you've been taken for a ride"(i.e. If you think Pete was trying to write
something serious and intelligent, he wasn't, he was just having a
laugh), and "'Cos it's only knock and knowall but I like it" make it
sound like Pete was poking fun at how he flaunts his own "hip" knowledge.
I guess the interpretation of the story is public domain, but I'm more
interested in what Peter himself was thinking, which this probably
was(notice how I avoided typing "and this was probably "it"?).
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
The last Gabriel-era Genesis album I bought. Maybe this is a good
thing. It is very long, with a hard to follow plot. I more or less figured
it out after a listen or two, but it still would be difficult for me to
explain it to someone else! Although this record is still growing on me, I
still figure that the second side is weaker than the first side.
There is no question on my mind why the title song is "well-known"
(mind you this is relative, talking about pre pop-Genesis, but the local
classic rock station, as much as it "whitewashes" the rock that is played
(e.g., "Freebird", "Stairway to Heaven", songs from Pink Floyd's 3 "widely"
known albums, played every day), play the title trck from time to time!) -
It's a great way to introduce this album! "In the Cage", "Hairless Heart,"
and "Carpet Crawlers" are among my favorites from the first CD. As for this
album being gothic- there might be some truth to this. My brother, who does
not normally listen to prog, was spooked to death from listening to some of
these songs!! (So move over Marilyn, I don't think I'll being listening to
you any time soon!) The second side, although weaker (e.g., "The Waiting
Room"), still has its fine moments. Pardon the italics, I could not resist!!
8 out of 10.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/15/01)
well, much has been said already that I'd probably just be repeating, but
I'll just say that this is my second favorite, next to Foxtrot, and I think
there are maybe about 1 or 2 total minutes worth of flaws out of its 1 hour
and 34 minutes. I have always thought the ending, it., was too quiet, like
the song before was building into something really big, and then.....bleh.
But then I heard the live version on the box set, and it was all made up for.
rob kipp (rkipp.si.rr.com) (8/25/01)
Regarding "it" on the box set, uh, that is a remix of the studio version,
it was not captured live, though it does have more power on the box set
than on the studio recording. (I have heard live version of "It," and
although the ending is lame, it does have a lot of power live)
Secondly, Eno did pretty much jack on the album, he had absolutely
nothing to do with the instrumental tracks at all. He just processed
Gabriel vocals on songs like "Grand Parade," "Cuckoo Cocoon," etc. The
atmospheric sound was largely created by Banks and Rutherfrod (Steve
himself has said that he doesn't think Tony has done a finer album).
I still prefer Selling England, but one cannot deny the importance of
this album. It cannot be listened to in pieces, it must be heard in
total to fully appreciate it. And yet this album was not a heavy seller
when it was released, which is a shame. There are some great songs on
this album, and it is definitely worth having.
Richard C Dickison (dickison.sbcglobal.net) (4/15/02)
I really liked your review of 'The Lamb Lies Down' and agree with your
assessment on the music and the lyrics.
But on the flip side I am not one of the people that see this as a true peak
for Genesis.
While I see them doing greats things and being simply a superb progressive
band here, but it does not seem quite right.
One, is the heavy influence of Peter Gabriel on this album and the obvious
lead he took in making it to represent his views
making it less of a band album and more like a Peter Gabriel album played by
Genesis.
For references see Pink Floyd 'The Final Cut'.
Two, this is drastically different in technique to what Genesis as a band
had done before.
This would be, instead of taking playful childhood like influences, stories,
images, and songs and twisting them in some witty perverse way to reflect
the darker adult world they lived in. You can see this in 'Trespass'
culminating in their true peak with Peter 'Selling England By The Pound'.
The Lamb is a fully realized, from the ground up, morality play conceived
and sung by Peter according to his interests.
You can almost see Phil taking notes for what he would do with the band
later.
For reference see 'Abacab' to 'We Can't Dance' Genesis as Phil's backup
band.
The band would get right back to what it was comfortable and successful with
in 'Trick Of The Tail' their final old formula bow after Peter leaves.
Peter himself would go back and revisit 'Selling England By The Pound'
format in a couple of songs on his first solo album.
Eno helps keep Tony and his grating synths in line here big time and I for
one appreciate that, and last, Peter is always interesting no matter what
the subject matter.
Steve we miss you, but check his solo album from this time for what he was
up to.
I just do not see this as a great and successful Genesis album and more like
a fragmented and bombastic blow-out.
The breakup with Peter right after seems to prove that point.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
Another fine album, maybe not quite as fine as the previous three, but
that is probably due to its sheer length more than anything else. Some of
the instrumental bits do drag, but most of the songs are terrific. My
favourite is "The Cage", I just love it! 8.5 out of 10.
Tami Swanson (tamintom.msn.com) (4/07/04)
Admit it, Banks is great!!! Stop ranking on him in your petty whiney
fashion.....you yourself say his style works on this...which is The BEST and
most imaginative (imo) releases of all 70s prog..... He wrote most of the
music as well as more than his share of all the other great genesis albums!
His technique and ability are beyond reproach....and beyond your
criticism.....stick it up your......!!!!!!!!Banks kicks A$$ all over
wakeman, emerson or whoever else you want to compare him to!!! Open your
ears!!!!!!!
robert edwards (roberte1964.yahoo.com) (9/20/04)
when i first got into genesis 24 years or so ago the lamb was my favorite
album. today, selling england is their best album, but i still love the
lamb.
Eric Balzer (ebalzer.HADASSAH.org) (12/09/04)
Um, a bit of a nitpick, I have Lamb on vinyl and side 1 ends with Grand
Parade of Lifeless Packaging not the Cage and side 2 starts with Back in
NY City.
Langas de los Langas (putolangas.hotmail.com) (01/09/06)
The Lamb... I became interested in this album (and, as a consequence,
in Genesis) because of your site, and particularly after reading your
review of "A Passion Play". Before knowing your site, I hadn't heard
one single Genesis song (rock stations in Spain... well...), and as
far as I knew Genesis was a pop band of the 80's, with Phil Collins
in it. It was enough to make me hate them, without having even
listened to them (the trio "Pop" - "80's" - "Phil Collins" was too
much for me, I guess). But then, while reasing your Tull page I was
puzzled by one remark you made (on one of my favourite Tull albums,
by the way):
"If I want to hear an album that deals with a soul travelling into
hell and facing matters of eternal perspective, I'll listen to The
Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, thank you very much. Lamb is great - this
is not."
Well, I was curious and decided to give it a try. And in the first
listens, I must say I found it quite boring, and I used to think:
"This guy is out of his mind. How can this be better than A Passion
Play? With all that cheesy keyboards, where are the guitars, for
Christ's sake?" (I had recently seen a solo performance by Steve
Hackett in a TV Show, and I was quite impressed, which led to major
dissapointment when I realized he didn't show up much in this album)
Anyway, I like to give albums several tries, and after all, the
opening track was marvelous; and after a while, I found out... this
album RULES!!
I agree with most of your review, especially regarding sides 1 and 2;
I love everything in those sides (with the exception of "Back in
NYC"), and everything I love about Genesis can be found there: the
amazing, AMAZING opening track; my favourite verse ("and I'm hovering
like a fly, waiting for the windshield on the freeway"); the only
instrumental song which is worth listening; the hilarious "Counting
out time"; the sinister ending of "Grand Parade of Lifeless
Packaging"; the beautiful and breathtaking "Chamber of 32 Doors"; and
my favourite part of the album (the instrumental middle section of
"In the Cage"; by the way, I think you are reading too much into that
alleged "From Genesis to Revelation" reference, but anyway).
But... the second disc doesn't say a lot to me. There is a lot of
filler, with all those pointless instrumentals, and even the songs
themselves don't hook me like the previous ones. I even find "The
Lamia" boring, which is weird, since I love its reprise in "The Light
Dies Down on Broadway". So what happens is: I start listening to this
album with great pleasure, and end up wishing for it to end. My
solution is simple: I have recorded in one CD my ideal tracklist,
taking my favourite tracks from disc 2 and removing "Back in NYC"
(yes, I know that ruins the whole story, but, honestly, I couldn't
care less about the coherence of the story); it goes as follows:
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
So that's it. I would give that compilation a 10(14), and on the
original "Lamb" I almost agree with your rating: a 9(12), it is (the
same rating I would give to "A Passion Play", by the way).
Unfortunately, I'm afraid I'll never be a Genesis fan; after
listening to their other most acclaimed albums ("Foxtrot" and
"Selling England by the Pound"), I don't know what's so great about
them (with the exception of "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", which
is better than anything in "The Lamb"; I just CAN'T STOP LISTENING TO
IT!!!). Maybe I will learn to appreciate them in the future, but for
the moment, The Lamb is my favourite Genesis album.
And, about that remark of yours that led to my interest in Genesis,
I'll answer to it: If I want to hear an album that deals with
afterdeath and the consequences of your past life, I will listen to
"Metropolis 2: Scenes From a Memory", thank you very much. "Lamb" and
"Passion" are great; "Scenes from a Memory" is GENIUS. ;-)
Trfesok.aol.com (08/02/07)
I've gotten into this more as the years have gone by, but I still
find it somewhat of a difficult listen. The lyrics are creative, too
be sure. Now, I love abstraction, pomposity and pretension as much as
any prog fan, but the lyrics are just too strange for my liking. It
may be a creative retelling of Dante's Inferno, or whatever, but I
find that the images are so bizarre (or, in the cases of "The Lamia"
and "..Slippermen", rather repulsive) that, for me, it gets in the
way of making an emotional or spiritual connection to the music. My
main reaction on listening is "Boy, that's weird" and "Boy, that's
really weird." And Stray Toasters makes a good point -- the
lyrics to "It" make you wonder if Pete knows that's it's all a
put-on.
The darker music is also harder to listen, to. The lovely folk
influences are pretty much absent (except on "Cuckoo Cocoon", but the
lyrics don't fit in with the music) and the classical influences are
muted (although gets some nice piano parts in on the second half of
the album, particularly "Anyway"). "The Waiting Room" is the worst
Genesis track up to this point. This noisefest is their very own
"Moonchild." At least it's not as long.
There are lots of good songs, though. "Back in NYC" sounds more like
a Gabriel solo track (and he did perform it live on his own early
tours). The funny "Counting Out Time", "Lilywhite Lilith" and "It"
add some needed energy, although "It" sounds out of place to me. My
two favorites are the title track and "The Carpet Crawlers", thanks
to Tony's beautiful swirling keyboards. The latter was the first
Genesis song to grab my attention (although it was the Collins live
version), but with those lyrics, it was bound to be a failure as a
single. A lot of the rest, of course, just doesn't make it outside of
the album's context. On the whole, the album is too ambitious and
surrealistic for its own good, but it definitely represents a peak
for Genesis.
Ricky Flahive (therickyman.hotmail.com) (11/22/08)
Now *THIS* , Mr. McFerrin, is what Selling England should have been. This
album is amazing pure and simple. I don't know if any album has done what
this does lyrically.
I would just like to point out though, that I don't think Steve Hackett is
under-used. Yes, Tony's keys drive the songs foward, but Steve always gets a
moment to shine with some fantastic guitar solos. But yeah, none reach the
heights of Firth or Fifth, but all are excellent. Blows England out of the
water 10 (15).
jorge gimbernat (gimberflo.hotmail.com) (08/13/13)
After lots of readings of reviews i found someone who mentions that passage between "Cage" and "Gran Parade". These is the kind of
things that i prefer instead a filler or a bad (or not well resolved song). This little, haunting, hypnotic instrumental sounds
more like a "pre-Gran Parade" than a "post In the cage" just because of its march rhythm...you can imagine easily lots of people
parading to this music.
And i also would add something about "sound images" that are not really music: "The waiting room" . When I listen to a record i
don't take for granted that everything is going to be a song. I like to be surprised, and since i listened to this record when i
was 18 my opinion hasn't changed. Those are not songs but i remember closing my eyes and find a stream of images (images that a
song cannot bring by the way). Sometimes a musical element emerges and sometimes doesnt and that's the fun of it.
On the other hand I can't stand that kind of experiments when the balance or the mesure is lost ("Thrakatrack" anyone?).
For the rest of the album I think that everything is said in a lot of sites I don't have nothing new to say.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
There's a significant disparity in my level of enjoyment when listening to the first and second albums of Lamb. The first is absolutely amazing to me, while the second is something of a slog for me to sit through. I tend to think the story supersedes the music in overall importance during the second album, and that's where it ultimately suffers.
That said, there are many songs and sections on both albums that are among the best in the band's history. On album one, the title track sets the stage absolutely perfectly, In the Cage is possibly the best mix of story and music (and would get even better in the Collins-era live shows), Counting Out Time is hilarious nonsense, Carpet Crawlers is probably the most gorgeous Genesis song ever made, and 32 Doors is effective in showing Rael's frustrated and hopeless emotional state. But the best on either album is the magnificent Back in NYC, featuring one of Gabriel's best ever vocal performances. You can feel the venom he spits in every word. For the most part, even the shorter tracks on album one are satisfying, particularly Fly on a Windshield/Broadway Melody of 1974 and The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging.
The second album, though, has far less that excitement than the first. I do enjoy a number of tracks, but there's really only two that I would put on par with the first album's gems, namely The Colony of Slippermen and It. I do enjoy Lilywhite Lilith, the Lamia, and Riding the Scree more than a little bit, but I just can't get into the rest in the way that progressive rock wisdom says I should.
Best song: uh ...
A terrific example of what a boxset should be. Many boxsets aren't much more than glorified greatest hits packages (Time Traveller). Other boxsets take an even more annoying approach, as they try to be both "best of" albums AND a collection of unreleased rarities, trying to satisfy both casual and hardcore fans but not fully pleasing either (30 Years of Maximum R&B, Yesyears). But Genesis and their record company got it right with this one. All tracks here were previously unreleased - some are outtakes, some are demos, and most is live material from the Gabriel era that never made it onto album (in other words, no overlaps with Genesis Live.)
The most infamous asset of the boxset comprises the first two discs of the four disc set - an official recording (in fact, the ONLY official recording from the tour) of a show from the Lamb tour. Not surprisingly, there aren't that many differences between this and the studio incarnation, but it's still worth a listen or two. The biggest difference is that, while he's still not quite as involved as he was on England, Hackett gets much more freedom to color the sonic landscape here than he did in the studio. The stretch from Anyway through The Lamia, in particular, is quite ear-catching compared to before. As for Gabriel, given that he had to sing while wearing some INSANE costumes (you have GOT to see the Slippermen costume!), it's no surprise that his singing often isn't quite as powerful as you'd expect. In fact, Gabriel was sufficiently disappointed in the way his voice turned out that when the archive was being compiled, he went in and re-recorded some of his parts.
Oh, and speaking of re-recording - apparently, the tape ran out during this show, and so the band had no choice but to reunite for this boxset and present a new recording of it. And it sounds GREAT. It's surprising, but Gabriel's voice, if anything, has only gotten better over the years. His voice is richer than ever, and his vocals roar through the song in a way that far surpasses the original's. It also is nice to hear that the band can still pull off their parts as well as ever - Hackett is very active, and Collins punches out the difficult rhythms of the piece as if he had stayed a drummer forever ... (note: I've already been sent comments correcting me on this, which are posted below, so don't bother sending more anymore telling me I'm a dumb dumb for not knowing it's just a re-recorded vocal).
While the first two discs get the most attention, my personal favorite HAS to be the third disc - a collection of various other live tracks from the Gabriel era (plus three studio tracks). The entire first half of England is presented in a live format, and while the tracks lack some polish (due to lack of studio production, obviously), they are just as powerful and funny and moving as before. But those aren't all! There's a *drumroll* live Supper's Ready! Huzzah! And for those of you who want some obscurity - Stagnation!
The three studio tracks on this disc are of mixed quality, but of interest to hardcore fans nonetheless. Twilight Alehouse is a lost classic, a Trespass-era number recorded during the Foxtrot sessions. It has a number of interesting themes that somehow manage to gel together despite all logic, and the ending instrumental section is eerie as hell (indeed, over time, it's easily become one of my five favorite Genesis tracks). It's no wonder, then, that it was a stage favorite of the band. The other two songs, on the other hand, aren't so great. Happy the Man is a hilariously dippy song that should NEVER have been released as a single, and the *single version* of Watcher of the Skies (*cough*) is such a hackjob that it's only enjoyable from a humor standpoint.
The fourth disc takes us back to the whee days of the band, and reminds us what a nice band this was all along. Even when they weren't writing about Giant Hogweeds. The demo versions of some FGTR tracks may be enough to convert haters of that album based on its production - stringless, there is nothing to obfuscate the incredible melodies of pieces like The Wilderness and One Day. And some of them started out as completely different creatures than what they became - for instance, did you know that The Serpent was originally called She is Beautiful? The hook of the song went - "She is beautiful, very beautiful, look at her. She is a model!" In Hiding also had a different character once, as a pretty instrumental called Patricia.
Most of the other songs on the disc aren't that great, though. They all have the wide-eyed charm that permeates the FGTR songs, but without instantly memorable hooks. I like the cute Going Out to Get You, and I always find the beginning of Sea Bee pretty, but ehn. Not bad, but I always want to whiz back to When the Sour Turns to Sweet etc.
All in all, though, this is a VERY enjoyable boxset for a Genesis hardcore like myself. Don't buy it as a beginner with the expectation of it converting you, though - that's not its purpose.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com) (1/1/02)
Genesis Archives: Volume I, for
one thing (most importantly?) takes off where Live left off: most notably, live
versions of "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of
Fifth", and a live version of The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, all of which are
quite wonderful, containing strong performances. And some Gabriel banter!! The
Lamb might be preferable in the live context, for those lamenting
Phil's "lethargy" and the partial disappearance of Steve in the studio version
of the Lamb will be more than pleased with the live version. For example, some
of Steve's lesser solos come to life here, most particularly the solo
in "Anyway": same solo, but played faster with a "paranoid" tone to it! There
are a few other odds and ends included in this box set (like the
singles "Twilight Alehouse" (good!),and "Happy the Man" (not so good), and some
FGTR outtakes (OK), but this box set may just be worth it for the live songs
(taking up nearly 5/8 to 3/4 of the box set). Just don't buy it at full price!!
rob kipp (rkipp.si.rr.com) (1/08/02)
The version of "it" on the Archive is not a completely new performance
recorded by the band, but rather a remix of the original 1974 studio
version with a re-recorded vocal by Peter. (I'm sure you know of the
re-recorded "Carpet Crawlers" on the Greatest Hits collection, but even
that was done in separate locales, the band were not actually together).
Regardless of that fact, I still like this mix, and Peter's new vocal,
better than the original "Lamb" version.
The rest of the box is great, Supper's Ready is a great performance
(Again, however, Peter re-did some of his vocals, I think everything up
to "Willow Farm" was redone, and some of Steve's solos [Firth, Moonlit
Knight] were redone as well). The old B-sides "Twilight Alehouse" and
"Happy the Man" are pretty cool as well, and I definitely like the single
version of "Watcher of the Skies."
Disc four is okay, I'm not much of a fan of the FGTR material, but I like
the three BBC performances (Shepherd, Pacidy, Let Us Now Make Love) and
wish those songs, especially Let Us Now... were recorded.
If you are a Genesis fan, you've probably got this already, and love it
as much as I do.
Peter Ross (prog_man2.yahoo.com) (10/21/03)
They did a terrific job with this boxset! The live
performance of "Lamb" rules, especially "Counting Out
Time" and the title track, and "SSIEB" manages to be
even scarier than on album. And dig Pete's stories!
The third live disc is a massive highlight, and I love
it at the beginning where the audience member yells
"BATTLE OF EPPING FOREST!!!!" and Pete, unfazed, just
says "...Wrong." Of course, the live "Supper" rules,
and the intro is hilarious--Pete chiding Phil for
screwing it up and his reply: "Sorry, I wasn't paying
attention to what you were doing." And yeah, that
single edit of "Watcher" blows mightily.
Disc 4 is okay for the first few songs, but then they
start running together--it's still interesting to hear
their roots.
Overall, it's an incredible set, and I thus give it a
9 (13).
Trfesok.aol.com (12/05/06)
It's a biggie, yes indeed, for a hardcore fan, but the first three
discs, along with the first Live album, would also give a newbie a
good overview of the Gabriel period. The only thing that I would
have liked to see as well is a live Gabriel version of "The Fountain
of Salmacis," but that's a nitpick, I suppose. I do find The Lamb..
a somewhat less dense and ponderous listen live, and I also agree
that it's nice that Hackett is more prominent in the mix. "Twilight
Alehouse" sort of pushes the group into Tull territory on the
extended coda -- was this long song actually on a 45 RPM single?
"Happy the Man" is cute and typically eccentric for this period, but
putting in a line like "One man thinks he's Jesus Christ" was a
guarantee of the single NOT making the top 40 in 1972! It's
interesting to hear the BBC "Stagnation" with the classic lineup
finally in place -- not as polished as the studio version, but you
can still here the jump in musicianship, especially on the drums. I
like the single version of "Watcher.." better than you
do, but the song really does need Tony's majestic mellotron
intro/outro in order to get the full effect.
Since most people seem to either really like or really detest FGTR,
that's going to color how you react to disc 4. Personally, I love it,
so, these are listenable enough, if totally slight. Only the edgy
(for this period, anyway) "Build Me a Mountain" is good enough to
deserve a place on the album. "Let Us Now Make Love" sounds pretty
goofy and naive -- you can tell that this song was written by people
who had never actually made love in their lives! Still, this material
is nice enough, but definitely not the best introduction to Genesis!
The first three discs are definitely a go, though.
MATTHEW CONSTANTINE (10/13/14)
Overdubs on the live material:
Disc 3:
Disc 4:
I'm in a minority but, for me personally, the fourth disc is the real highlight of the box (especially now that Alehouse and Happy
aren't so rare anymore).
It's true that most of the songs still need a bit of refinement (main problem: there's a fair few "dodgy" lines of lyric), but so many
of them could have become highlights of the first two albums (because musically they're stronger than a few FGTR and "Trespass" songs)
Magic Of Time and the entire Sea Bee-through-Hair On The Arms song-sequence could have enhanced FGTR, with a few finishing touches, and
it must have been mere luck-of-the-draw that ensured Visions of Angels and White Mountain displaced the three BBC Nightride songs. (Oh,
not forgetting that charming oddity Hey! which really does sound like a lost Bee Gees song).
BTW: Isn't it odd that they had such an affection for self-contradictory "riddle songs" (in the vein of Springtime In The Rockies or
their mentor's Everyone's Gone To The Moon) - there are three of these on Disc 4, or four if you include Going Out To Get You mk. 1 (the
mk. 2 version which they played live in '71-'72 is probably much better: if only we could make out the words to it)
acg3dinst.aol.com (12/13/15)
I agree with your comments. Overall this boxset is crucial for fans of PG era Genesis. There are a couple of criticisms, however. On the live “Lamb”, the re-recording of PG’s vocals may have been a necessary evil, but there are a number of places where it really sounds rather clumsy. In no small part this is because of the 20+ years that intervened between the two recordings. Unlike many rock singers of his age, Gabriel still sounds great and has a decent range (the last time I saw him live in 2012 he hit some high notes better than his female backing singers), but the voice is deeper and even gravelier than it was in ’75. The contrast is particularly jarring on “Back in NYC”, where the vocals clearly alternate back and forth between the old an new recording. Steve Hackett evidently also redid some guitar lines, but it’s not very evident.
I agree the third disc is the main reason to own this CD. THE SINGLE most glaring hole in the Genesis catalog up to that point was a PG-sung live version of “Supper’s Ready”. Phil Collins does as good a job as can be expected on “Seconds Out”, but it’s not the real deal. “Seconds Out” is a very good album in its own right, but this was necessary! The two unrealeased tracks are also a nice addition. I’d had them on a bootleg until then. I’m not a fan of “Happy the Man”, but “Twighlight Alehouse” is top notch Genesis. I also enjoy the inclusion of some PG’s introductory stories.
Disk 4 is just OK. Not being much of a fan of FGTR (I consider “Trespass” their first real album), it is an improvement to hear it w/o the cheesy strings, but, meh! It’s also interesting to hear that PG’s voice already had that distinctive gravely characteristic in his teen years. The live stuff and outtakes from “Tresspass” are the only stuff I ever listen to on that CD. “Stagnation” is for me the best song on “Tresspass”. I like it much better than “The Knife”. Being a fan some of Anthony Phillips’s solo stuff, it’s cool to hear his influence on this and on “Twilight Alehouse”
The one remaining omission in the catalog is a PG live version “Fountain of Salmacis”.
Best song: Squonk
Exit Peter Gabriel, enter ... actually, nobody. Upon his departure, the band auditioned scores of possible replacements for Pete, but something tells me they weren't going to choose a new person anyways. After all, no matter how good the replacement might turn out to be, chances are that he would always be looked upon as an inferior 'outsider' by the fanbase, and the band would certainly have problems if that occurred. So the band did the only logical thing - they promoted from within the organization. Hence, Phil rose from his drumkit (well, at least in live performances - the studio drumming still is the same wonderful Collins work as ever) and into the position of singer and frontman for the group.
Now, in a lot of ways, this choice seemingly made sense, and not just because he was already a group member. At the most basic level, Phil's voice isn't all that different from Peter's, and so there wouldn't be as huge of a shock for the listener's ears upon hearing a new album. Plus, Phil had had the opportunity to sing lead on a couple of songs in the past, and while the efforts weren't spectacular or anything like that, they certainly weren't bad. Add in that his backing vocals were often just as important for the vocal harmonies as Peter's were, and you had yourself an almost textbook choice for a replacement. Right? Right?
Er ... sort of, but in a lot of ways, no. The main problem with Phil the lead singer, at least at this point, is that he's just not that creative in his singing approach. Oh sure, he sounds fine when he's belting full power, but when the compositions and lyrics call for subtle nuances and variations from line to line, he really comes up short. His singing tone isn't usually bad mind you, but it's very monotonous and does little to help draw your attention to the material. Not to mention that traditional Genesis compositions rely heavily on the singer's ability to hook the listener in, as the arrangments are never chaotic enough a la Yes to be able to get by with just a straightforward vocal "covering," like what Phil mostly provides here. I wouldn't want to go so far as to say Phil's vocals on this album are a weakness, but I would say that this album took what was once one of the band's greatest strengths and turned it into a relative non-factor.
Then there's the songs themselves. Best as I can tell, the band members didn't really wish to try and gallump about for an altogether new stylistic approach like they had on The Lamb. After all, the fans had already undergone one major catastrophic change in Gabriel's departure, and the last thing they would want would be a total break from the Genesis they had grown to know and love. Hence, while there are certainly some significant changes (not all of them for the better, mind you) from the "classic" style, this album is certainly much more in line with England than with Lamb. But really, that ends up hurting the album a bit - they try to capture the old vibe, but with Peter away, it was gone forever, and trying to recapture it without the requisite parts was ultimately a futile effort. They could now be nothing more than a Genesis imitation (albeit still a really good imitation), and that meant that, however good the album could be, it would have to be the last in that style. Of course, where they ended up was a disaster, but I digress ...
There is one really really huge difference between England and Trick, and that is the arrangements. England boasted a perfect balance and meeting point between Tony and Steve, whereas this album continues the Lamb path of tipping the balance well into Tony's favor. However, while Lamb found Tony's keys creating ghostly black-and-white paintings of the netherworld, Trick finds Tony's synths getting just a little too obnoxious in tone for me in places. Steve isn't invisible, as there are a few parts where he's clearly in the front of the mix (though it should be noted that his guitar sound on this album, for the most part, is nowhere near as satisfying as on England or on his solo album from a year earlier, Voyage of the Acolyte), but for the most part he's back to being a featured supporting player (providing good texture as best as he can), and not a lot more. The best example is what happens during his solo in Ripples, as mentioned in the page introduction; of all the moments when Tony should have just scooted into the background, this was it, but instead we get the marring of what should have been one of the all-time beautiful moments in prog rock (for proof of how good this track could be when the guitar was given full emphasis, see Archive 2).
So, after all that complaining, I still give the album an overall B because the actual songs, divorced from their presentation, are very good. The only one I'm not especially thrilled about is the rambling Banks "ballad" Mad Man Moon. Granted, it represents a definite break in style and form from Gabriel Genesis, which is an "advancement" I suppose, but I liked that style and form, dang it. The song has some moments that almost leave me thinking they're beautiful (until I wonder what exactly would distinguish them from plenty of other keyboard-based prog bands), and the song takes a nice turn during the piano breaks and the "hey man, I'm the sand man part," but the lyrics are unremarkable on the whole, and the song tries too hard for a beauty that just isn't really there.
But the rest is mostly great, once weaknesses in production and presentation are accounted for. As an example, the opening Dance on a Volcano is stricken with annoying *squeak* noises coming from Steve's guitar in the beginning and some ridiculous tones from Tony's synths throughout ... on the other hand, the synth riff underpinning the vocal melody is absolutely genial, and the main melody itself is nothing to sneeze at either. And of course, there's later the gorgeous Rutherford ballad Ripples, with Phil's best vocal performance of the album, an incredibly beautiful chorus to go with the nice verses, and of course the pretty Steve solo.
My favorite, though, has to be the cute Mike/Tony composition Squonk, about a hunted creature who cries himself to non-existence when finally captured by the "narrator." The song incorporates a good chunk of 12-string guitars, Phil's powerhouse drumming grooves things along well, and the organ riff in the chorus is fabulous! It also features a vocal melody that's pretty complex but still very memorable, and the vocal parts are sometimes even moving! It also doesn't hurt that it's poppy at its core.
The other four songs are very good as well. Entangled is a nice Hackett/Banks (!) collaboration, with a pretty melody, lots of acoustic guitar and appropriate touches of mellotron here and there. And the slow winding synth part at the end is remarkable - Banks does a good enough job of building up the tension and volume such that the piece doesn't really seem as overlong as it probably is.
Two of the other tracks also have heavy input from Banks, as one is a collaboration with Collins and the other is a solo composition. Strangely enough, the solo composition, the title track, turns out to be the second best song on the album, which means it's really really good. It's actually poppy in its essence, which is a surprise given the source, and both the verse and choral melodies are incredibly memorable. Plus, the lyrics are actually entertaining for once, as they tell the story of a runaway devil who discovers that life among humans isn't all it's cracked up to be. There are also some really nice quiet guitar tinklings (if such a description can be applied to guitar) that pop up in some of the instrumental breaks. The poppiness also extends to the other track on here, the Harold-the-Barrel-inspired Robbery, Assault and Battery. On this track, Phil comes the closest he ever would to fufilling his calling as Gabriel's heir of funny characterizations, and while it's certainly no Battle of Epping Forest, it's certainly not the "worst Genesis song ever" like some fans apparently say it is. Some of the mid-song synth soloing sounds a little amateurish, but I don't mind it horribly.
Finally, capping off the album (and possibly making up for lack of other inspiration), we have an instrumental reprise of some of the various themes found throughout in Los Endos. That doesn't mean it's not good, though - there are bits and pieces of new music in there, and the way they interweave the parts from Volcano and Squonk is quite fascinating. Why Phil sings a quote from Supper's Ready near the end continues to elude me, but no matter - the melodies mostly rule, and while the arrangement isn't perfect, parts of it are fantastic (my favorite part is that brief "teasing" guitar line near the very end). It would get much better live, anyway.
So all in all, this is a pretty great album ... but that's because it's rooted in a very great style, even if there have been some small changes here and there. For the first time in the development of this style, there is no track that tops the best effort of the previous album (remember, I'm not counting Lamb in this sequence, as it really doesn't fit), and the weaknesses are beginning to rear their ugly heads again. And yet, while I'm more likely to feel in the mood to listen to live versions of these songs than the original studio versions, the songs are so good on the whole that I can mostly forgive these problems.
Joel Larsson (joel.larsson.privat.utfors.se)
If I had the opportunity the choose the new singer, it would have been
someone with a totally different style and sound. Phil did sound nearly
exactly the same as Peter, but he was a little worse. It would have been
better with Pavarotti or someone (not necessarily a famous opera guy, of
course!), to add a biy'o diversity to the first-epoch-albums.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
The first time I heard Trick of the Tail was on the radio after midnight!
What a pleasant surprise! A pleasant Genesis album with Phil Collins at
vocals!! I initially thought that Phil sounded like Peter Gabriel, but with
time (I was still getting into Gabriel-led Genesis at this point), I know
much better... .
"Dance on a Volcano" actually seemed a bit jerky at first, but I have grown
to appreciate it. Great ending, too. "Entangled" is quite nice.
Although it is long, somehow, it merits its length (unlike some songs from
the next record...). "Squonk", my first glimpse into prog Genesis (unless
"Follow you, Follow me" counts as prog... It's all in the definitions...),
still impresses me to this day: the lumbering guitar riff, the organ in
particular. "Mad Mad Moon" is a bit long, but before it goes over the egde
(no pun intended!), deep in the mix is Steve Hackett's heavenly ambient
guitar (am I the only one to notice this, or are there others? Please
confirm my sightings!). The songs on the second side drop off just a bit
("Robbery, Assault, and Battery" to be particular is a bit silly, but still
quite listenable unlike "Misunderstanding"... ). "Ripples..." is again quite
pretty with the mentioned Steve Hackett backwards guitar solo that someone
(again?) is trying to bury. "Trick of the Tail" seems Beatle-esque to me,
and all for the better! Finally, "Los Endos" seems to be a more than decent
way to close off a solid album.
Not a bad album, in the wake of Peter Gabriel's departure. Just an slight
imbalance between keyboards and guitars concerns me a bit.
Nevertheless solid. 9 out of 10.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/25/01)
I've always thought that the vocals on A Trick of the Tail through And Then
There Were Three weren't powerful enough, also, especially when I first heard
them. But I think some of the reason is the way they are mixed. Notice, he
sings the same way on "Heathaze" from Duke, but somehow it still sounds
stronger. I think on the first 3 "Phil" Genesis albums the had the vocals
kind of low in the mix, but more-so drenched in reverb. Which is something I
rarely complain about, since I love reverb. (It sounds great on the vocals
of their self-titled album, esp. "Mama" and "Home By the Sea.") But when
he's singing softly and mornfully, all that reverb makes it that much harder
to hear what he's saying. "Ballad of Big" from Three is a good example of
this. (I had the lyrics all wrong before actually reading them.) But I
have learned to get used to this, and I think Trick of the Tail is my
favorite from the Phil period, and the sequence of the first three tracks
couldn't have been done any better.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
Well, Peter was gone, and Phil stepped up to the mike and, I feel, did a
creditable job. The songs are mostly strong on this album. Again, I'm
going to disagree with you and say I love "Mad Man Moon", but "Dance On A
Volcano" is the best on this album - the one time that they did play a
tricky time signature and do is well. Steve doesn't feature much on the
album because he had just completed his first solo album, "Voyage Of The
Acolyte", and the other three actually started this album while he was
still doing that. Overall, 8 out of 10.
Jorge Lopez (jorgelopezg.gmail.com) (01/19/08)
Actually, the supper's ready vocal reprise at the end of Los Endos is
the band's goodbye to Peter.
acg3dinst.aol.com (02/13/09)
You mentioned it in your review that this album was more in line with
"Selling England.." than with "Lamb." That's correct,
and I don't think that was incidental. Both listening to the
music and looking at the album cover it seems to me that there is a
deliberate effort to allude back to the 1973 album. Even the
sequencing of the songs parallels "Selling". For the obvious
reasons which everyone knows, the guys had something to prove after
PG left, and the fact that they chose "Selling England...." as
the one to emulate, confirms what you and I agree on, that
"Selling" was their peak. These are the parallels I could
think of. Maybe there's more.
- Cover: color scheme, Victorian age characters
trfesok.aol.com (07/13/10)
I'm a little surpised that you rated this so high, since your nemesis Tony wrote
co-wrote every song. Be that as it may, what really changed my mind about this album
is the new 2007 remaster. The original version has a more sympathetic, accessible
production from David Hentschel than the earlier albums (particularly the last one),
but it totally swamped Collins' vocals. Either that, or he was unable to assert
himself in the studio, but I found it a chore to try and listen to his voice. The
remix, though, puts everything in sharper relief, but especially the vocals. Phil
now sounds almost as good here as he did in his 80's prime.
I like most of the songs. I enjoy "Mad Man Moon" (probably the most obscure piece
here -- almost everything else here has been performed live, except maybe for the
title track) more than you do, apparently. It does go on a bit too long, but the
acoustic piano playing and the parallel synthesizer is pretty cool. The other two
ballads are gorgeous, but I'd give "Entangled" a slight edge over "Ripples" because
of the vocal harmonies and the mellotron. "Dance on a Volcano" is a very intense
prog piece, while "Squonk" and the title track are cute fantasy pop songs. However,
I think the one song that is undermined by the lush production is "Robbery, Assault
and Battery". This song needs more of an edge, which it would get live. On the
whole, though, this was a good start for the Collins Genesis. Too bad they didn't
quite keep it up, prog-wise.
Play the Archive 2 B-side "It's Yourself" back to back with "Los Endos" sometime.
Interesting. Although the track has some nice ambient guitar sounds, it's too
formless to have been on the album.
Another reason to get the 2007 version is that it also comes with a DVD that
includes a 45 minute "Genesis In Concert" movie. Although the director throws in
some annoying music video type stuff, you get to see Phil really get into stuff like
"Supper's Ready", and Bill Bruford in action with the band - -especially cool.
Scott Wilson (vinylfind.gmail.com) (06/13/14)
Thanks for this great series of reviews. This was the first Genesis album I heard. I was 17 and working at a record store when it came out. That
same year I caught the tour, and was hooked. From there I worked backwards, and discovered Gabriel Era Genesis. 35 years later, I still listen to
it, and feel it was a triumph considering the major loss of Gabriel. Enough has been said on the songs from a musical and lyrical standpoint, but
as an audiophile, sound quality and production are important to me as well, and Trick is probably the best sounding Genesis production. I would
follow that with Selling, then Lamb. Lately though I listen to Foxtrot, my favorite overall for content, not sound.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
I'm probably in the minority on this, but Trick is easily my second favorite Genesis album. And I mean by a very significant margin. This is not a dig on the rest of their output, it is more a reflection on just how much I adore this album.
My first show of The Musical Box was when they did their only tour for this album's touring setlist, so this was the first album I became acquainted with. Eight years later, it still hold a special place in my heart.
But it's not just sentimentality that makes this my #2 Genesis album. I will defend the overall musicality of this album until my last breaths. Even with the increased, if occasionally unwelcome, presence of Tony Banks, far more often than not I enjoy what he's doing on this album. I am more than satisfied by all the tracks on the album, particularly the first three, and especially my pick for the best track, Entangled.
Best song: Blood On The Rooftops
Blah. You know, I'm all for bands evolving over time. After all, if you use the same style again and again, eventually it's going to grow stale. BUT, I also firmly believe that changing is not enough - you have to change into something that, at the very least, displays relative advantages over the style you're discarding. Alas, with this album, Genesis threw away large parts of their classic style in cold blood, only to replace them with genericism and dullness. Now, instead of taking a song-by-song approach with this fact, I decided it would be better to run down the list of traits that made classic Genesis so great in my eyes (and ears), and then to compare them with the inferior doppelganger in this incarnation of Genesis.
As you can tell, I'm not too fond of the stylistics of this album. Since I haven't done much but bash it so far, though, I should explain why it gets a 6 instead of a lower grade. First of all, with regards to the last problem (the vocals) - because three of the songs are pop songs (or, at the least, songs with a relatively clear direction and with easily discernable hooks) instead of Banks prog-ravings, Phil is able to contribute fully solid vocals on each one of them. The first, the hit Your Own Special Way, is a decent Rutherford acoustic ballad, and although it's certainly way too long (and the midsection way too soft and mellow), it also features a fully memorable chorus and a pleasant verse melody. Much better, though, is a classic in the Collins/Hackett collaboration Blood on the Rooftops. In addition to the aforementioned pretty acoustic intro, it also (a) features a well placed mellotron that sounds better than any of the other synths on the album, and (b) contains a beautifully romantic melody with some well-timed emotional climaxes. It's EASILY Collins' best vocal performance of the album, and if anything, makes me glad the band would start to shift towards pop from the next year onwards.
I've also developed some fondness over time for the closing Afterglow. I don't think Collins' vocal part is great here, and I don't think it has as much power as was probably intended (especially with it following two instrumentals). In fact, truth be told, I don't think it's an amazing studio song ... and yet, I've heard it and enjoyed it so many times as the closing part of live medleys that some of that fondness can't help but wear off onto this version.
I should also give props to the album opener, Eleventh Earl of Mar, which has grown on me a lot through the years. I find the intro and outro a little annoyingly over-the-top overblown, but there are some neat Hackett effects that break through the synths, and these give a deceptive sense of how much Hackett to expect on the album. I also think the vocals are pretty unremarkable (I feel like the song is better when I'm singing along to it), and I find it a little irritating that the vocal melody seems more than a bit borrowed from The Battle of Epping Forest. Still, it has some great organ riffs, more energy than the rest of the album combined, some powerhouse drumming and bass work, some decent lyrics (even if they don't come through well), and a good balance between the intended beauty of Tony's keys and the power of Steve's guitar.
But again, there's not much else positive to be found on this album, at least not to my ears. It's not quite as horrendous as I initially thought, but egads, it's definitely NOT deserving of being called a fan-favorite. I mean, if you like 70's Genesis just because they were progressive, you could like this album. But if you like 70's Genesis because they were a special kind of progressive, chances are good that you'll be disappointed as hell in this.
Slight addendum: Many years after writing this review, while I still think that Unquiet Slumber for the Sleepers is distressingly similar to Ravine, I do kinda like the slow unwinding of the quiet melody in the background. To be honest, while I don't find any of the last three tracks (Unquiet, Quiet Earth, Afterglow) individually very great, put together they make for a pretty decent 10-minute album-closing suite (nothing amazing, but definitely decent). This is enough to prompt me to bump the grade of the album up a notch.
Philip Maddox (slurmsmckenzie.hotmail.com)
I had to write in on this one. I actually like this album! You see, as much
as I actually agree with some of your statements here (Phil's vocals aren't
half as good as Peter's, the synth tone is very samey throughout the album,
Hackett's mysterious absense, the lyrics aren't as good as the ones that
came before, though I still wouldn't really call them bad), there's one
thing I disagree on - in spite of all the problems you listed, I think most
of the melodies here are still awesome! The group didn't really lose all
their talent just like that - most of these tunes still sound good to me,
and I firmly believe that if Peter had been around, this would have been
great!
For one thing, I ADORE "Eleventh Earl Of Mar". That is one cool tune! I
don't even mind the synth bit at the beginning (and I like how it's reprised
on "...In That Quiet Earth"). And "One For The Vine"! I can't figure out for
the life of me why everybody hates that song so much! Sure, the lyrics are
lame, but the main melody is lovely, the synth riff at the end of the
instrumental middle section rocks, and the uplifting synth part at the end
is superb! I mean, it isn't "Supper's Ready", by what is? And I even think
"Wot Gorilla?" is cool - it does sound a bit like "Riding The Scree", but
it's still fast and reasonably exciting. Really, just about every song here
does at least something for me (even the instrumentals!)
I'll admit that it isn't quite up to prior standards (for obvious reasons),
but I still like it enough to give it an UNBELIEVABLY high 7(10), maybe even
an 8(11) if I'm in a particularly good mood. As the final bow-out of
progressive Genesis (discounting Calling All Stations, of course, if you
wanna call THAT progressive...), it doesn't disappoint. At least it doesn't
disappoint me.
Jeff Guild (jeffrey_guild.hotmail.com)
John, I've been reading your Genesis album reviews and I can stand it no
more. I started to reply several times and, each time, decided to cool down
first. I kept reading and got as far as Wind and Wuthering before I could
hold back no longer.
Wind and Wuthering (on vinyl) was the first Genesis album I ever owned and I
was in musical love with it. It prompted me to go out and get, over time,
their entire canon up to "Genesis" (1983) -- their last album that had clear
progressive elements on show.
I LIKE Tony's keyboards. I LIKE "Wot Gorilla?". I find "One For the Vine"
(for which you reserve your vitriol of lowest pH) lyrically engaging. You
say it's Tony "jumping up and down and saying 'Look at me! I'm writing about
the messiah! I'm so deep and philosophical!'" Actually, I see it more as a
debunking of messiahs than as anything about "the" Messiah. It's a fanciful
tale about a man who can't in good conscience bring himself to follow a
leader blindly into battle along with the rest of his people, but who ends
up unwillingly leading a group of his own blind followers into battle. When
he looks back and sees a follower whose faith is failing, he's reminded of
himself so long ago. When the follower stands up and vanishes into air,
just as he had, the circle of irony is complete. The messages, since you
appear to have missed them, are (1) that authority and responsibility are
often thrust by force of circumstance upon those who least want them and (2)
that messiahs can be just regular Joes who find themselves followed. And
yes, it is rather deep and philosophical. It's also quite poetic.
"Blood On the Rooftops" is a beautifully melancholy piece. The
introduction, featuring the Hackett classical guitar that you love so much,
has that wonderful hard-to-nail-down Genesis quality that I once heard
described as reminding one of "dead flies in the dusty window of an antique
book store." I could never describe it better.
"Unquiet Slumbers" and "In That Quiet Earth"... Pure magic! And after all
of the tempo changes, changes of mood, and changes of style have taken the
listener on a musical adventure throughout the album, "Afterglow" is the
destination, finally reached.
You remind me of someone who can analyse a fine wine, point out its varietal
traits, identify its flaws, evaluate the winemaker's technique, rate it
against other wines, and estimate its market value, but who is incapable of
enjoying or appreciating it. Lie down on your comfortable old sofa, pull on
a blanket, put on your best headphones, turn out the lights, close your
eyes, and give Wind and Wuthering another listen. The magic will be all
around you. Open your heart and your mind and you will see it -- and hear
it.
(author's note): A few things:
1. A rebuttal has been sent to Jeff already explaining the purpose of the site, and that it is not meant to be a "fan" site, as there are too many of those out there already.
2. If you've followed my writing on this site and on others, you will know that, if anything, I am MORE susceptible to having images flow through my head and allowing myself to be made awash by sonic textures and what-have-you than most people.
3. In case it isn't clear for some reason, I LOVE Genesis. Absolutely adore them. But that doesn't mean I'm going to fool myself into thinking they're a perfect band, because they weren't. And besides, as I explained in the introduction, their flaws made them that much more lovable.
4. I've actually listened to Wind and Wuthering a lot, trying to get into the atmosphere supposedly created by this album. And it hasn't caught on once. Oh, I enjoy the atmosphere of Blood on the Rooftops plenty, but the rest does absolute jack for me. I recognize the fact that the last three tracks are supposed to be some kind of journey, but if there's neither interesting melodies nor overwhelming beauty to suck me in, I'm not going for the ride.
And finally -
5. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm wrong.
stray_toasters.juno.com
I don't hate 'One for the Vine' thaaat much. I've never really felt any
passionate hatred towards a song-bored, yes, but not screaming bloody
murder, like some people feel about 'One for the Vine'. Oh, it is
boring. Goes for that epic, all-important feel but feels like something
anyone could have written. The notes just jump up and down in place
without doing anything. The mid-section is kinda neat and saves the song
a little but just returns to the boredom after a couple minutes. By the
way, this was the first prog-Genesis album I ever heard, back when I was
fanatical about their pop period. Couldn't really get into the album
then, and the same holds true for now.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
Unless you are among a set of measure zero (bad math reference - i.e., in
quite a small minority), it seems hard for me to see Wind and Wuthering as
an improvement over Trick and a Tail. One, more synthesizers! Although they
don't annoy me nearly as much as other people, they still run amuck on this
record! Sometimes so much, it seems we have an Emerson-wannabe here! This
makes Steve Hackett ever more elusive on this record! (This can't be a good
thing for me!) Secondly, some of these songs are overly long!! Not
necessarily bad, but long and consequently boring. Finally, the synths start
to sound (for me) a bit poisonous (check out the beginning, right before
Phil sings, in "Eighth Earl of Mar"). Finally, Phil Collins, although
singing okay, seems a bit more monotonous here!
Enough rants!! Other than the aforementioned synth part and a bit of
lengthiness, "Eighth Earl of Mar" is quite engaging (with actual energy,
and for those Hackett lovers out there, a solo!). "Blood on the Rooftops" is
quite a to the point minor mastrepiece. The closing instrumentals ("Unquiet
Slumbers...In This Quiet Earth") are on the most part quite moving.
Hackett's part in the latter instrumental seems to give an indication to
what we would do in Spectral Mornings. Just Tony Banks gets a bit carried
away at the end. Finally,
"Afterglow" seems to be a moving way to end the record.
Despite its flaws, I give this record a 7 out of 10. (I can't grant it any
higher than this. I may be being a little generous with the 7, too...).
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/15/01)
well, first of all, I will agree with you on the lyrics being bad. BUT, this
album is a lot like Selling England.. in one sence....it reveals itself
slowly. Of course, the album is not quite as good, but I have to say that it
reveals itself much more slowly. It was one of my least favorites for a
fairly long time, and I was always puzzled by people praising it so much, but
in the later parts of my time with it, I have noticed beauty in it that I
never thought I would. "Eleventh Earl of Mar" is my favorite track.
Gustavo Cirigliano (guscir.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
Hi! first of all, I want to tell you that your reviews very help me in the
order to buy the Genesis albums.
But, I´m not agree with you giving a 4 to W&W. I think that is a wonderful
album. The songs are all good, some of them in the wave of The Lamb. I
give this album an 8.
This album is much enjoyable that anyone from de trio, FGTR and Trespass.
Riley Martin (Martin.Riley.lsc.gov.uk) (5/15/02)
I quite like the album but All in a Mouse's Night & Wot Gorilla should
have no place on here. There must have been better material by Steve
Hackett that could have been used, certainly in the Archive #2 box set he
claims that they were working on a version of his Please Don't Touch,
which appeared on his next solo album. If more of his work could have
been accomodated perhaps he wouldn't have felt such an urge to leave and
the future of the band could have been very different. Having said that
I'm sure that once Phil had started flexing his pop muscles a couple of
albums down the line Steve would have felt obliged to leave anyway.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
You are right that this is not as good an album as any of the previous
ones, but it doesn't stink either. My Favourite tracks are "Blood On The
Rooftops", "Eleventh Earl Of Mar" and "One For The Vine". With that last
track, I have a different perspective on the lyric again, I feel the song
is about how, if we are not careful, we can become the very thing we
hate. Think about it. As for Phil's vocals, he was still learning at this
stage, his vocals would become better and more powerful as time went on.
"All In A Mouse's Night" pretty much sucks, if you ask me though. 7 out
of 10.
Lars Tängmark (lars.tangmark.swipnet.se) (7/23/02)
Hello!
I have listened to Wind and Wuthering many times, and the only track I
find enjoyable is "One for the vine". The lyrics are horible of course,
but there's this melody in the middle instrumental section that sounds a
bit like the fast mellotron riff from "Dancing with the moonlit
knight". That melody is the only thing that that I can remember after
hearing this album over and over, so I'm surprised that you seems to
dislike "Vine" as much as you do.
Francisco Palafox (Francisco.Palafox.telmarnt.com) (10/19/04)
I've had W&W (as well as all Genesis oeuvre up to Genesis-Mama) for some
years and hadn't listened to it lately; I mean, I didn't remember too
much about it, but certainly nothing like what I read in your review rang
a bell. I remembered simply liking it, so reading your review I decided
to retrieve it from oblivion and give it a listen. Well John, I'll have
to say that your review served the purpose of hooking me back on my old
Genesis records (now CDs) and haven't listened to anything else for the
past month. Of course, I paid special attention to W&W (Gabriel era stuff
remains unquestioned) and promptly came to the conclusion that simply
put, it is the best post-Gabriel work the band did (not withstanding
Trick of the Tail, which comes in a close second) and sadly, the last
worthy work from the progressive Genesis we all learned to love in the
70s and that became a major influence on all things progressive coming
after them. Of course, this is a completely personal appreciation and I
guess I shouldn't say "the best" but "the one I like the most", being
that the concept of good and bad is pretty absolute and assumes
omniscience on the part of the person expressing the view, and "I like"
is completely personal and subjective. I'm sure the latter is what most
people really mean (Except the Pope and most Republicans). I also won't
attempt getting into technical arguments about the music or even reasons
why I like what I like (?), since I probably won't (and shouldn't try to)
convince anybody that dislikes W&W as much as you do and since I also
think that being a Genesis fan your reasons are of course as valid as
mine. As for the lyrics, I'll just say that in general, I think great
music accompanying great lyrics would be the selection of choice,
unfortunately for those looking for poetry in Rock, most rockers, with
notable well-known exceptions, have always been mainly musicians (or I'm
sure they would probably like to think so) - of all degrees of talent -
but musicians nevertheless. After all, rock is about MUSIC isn't it?
(mainly, at least). It has always seemed to me that Progressive rockers
were burdened enough already with composing grand music to on top of that
having to compose lyrics to match their music. Results: lyrics most of
the time ended up being, short-changed, overblown or nobody could
understand them (does anybody know what Jon or Ian Anderson were talking
about in the 70s?). On the other hand, I'll take lousy lyrics with music
I like over great lyrics with music I dislike anytime! As a rule of
thumb, I'd suggest that anyone seeking poetic or literary worth stick to
Shakespeare, Milton, Dickens, Joyce, E.E. Cummings, etc. Finally, for all
those wondering if they should get Wind and Wuthering... if you like 70s
Genesis, get it NOW, if only to make your own judgment. Fans of Disney's
Genesis (or whatever it is that they turned into after Steve Hackett
left) are advised to stay away. Oh! congratulations on your site. I come
to it regularly as a reference. Great work!
Nickrj.aol.com (02/12/05)
Kind of a mediocre album. Steve Hackett's last but he does give us a couple of
nice guitar solos on Eleventh Earl Of Mar and Blood On The Rooftops.
As for the album. Most of side one is pretty good. Eleventh Earl Of Mar is a
terrific opener. Your Own Special Way is a great pop song and One For The Vine
is another good one despite what you say. Afterglow is also a terrific closer.
(Two note melody?)
However the rest of the album pretty much blows. Wot Gorilla? is probably the
worst song they've ever done and the other two instrumentals aren't that much
better. All In A Mouse's Night is another song that would've sound better with
Peter singing it. I have grown to appriciate Blood On The Rooftops though so
I've raised my rating for this album to 6(9)
ouija 24 (ouija24usa.hotmail.com) (07/02/06)
I have no problem whatsoever with, "One for the Vine." In fact, I often
times catch myself humming its tune, and wondering if the figure seen on the
distant slope was, in fact, the narrator himself, who had been somehow
transposed into the doubted messiah role, or if it was simply a kindred
spirit of doubt.
Nickrj.aol.com (03/17/07)
UPDATE: I like this album even more now. I still hate Wot Gorilla but
I like the other two instrumentals. Unquiet Slumbers... is pretty and
...Quiet Earth is very good. All In A Mouse's Night is much better
than I thought it was. Especially the ending with Tony and Steve
playing. My rating is now 8(12)
"chris myers" (chrismyrs.gmail.com) (08/13/09)
reading your writings and the comments - fascinating indeed. not that i
agree w/ everything - it is so great this band generates so much interest -
my first interest in them was watcher of the skys - that mellotron thing
became part of my brain! - then - in '77 i saw them and , yes, that was wind
& wuthering and the lamb (w/phil!) etc - i'll tell ya i've never experienced
music and a show like that. experiencing it w/other genesis appreciating
friends - so - just to be a square - my personal opinion (which i highly
regard) is this time especially 76-77 w/ hacket is actually the reason
millions were reached so personally that thereafter was sought after by us
all - and that means banks as well! the personality of each of these guys
in their music is wonderful (and i love phil collins and squeeze every drop
of genesis i can from his own projects , and hackett's solo work. again -
happy to see the interest! and so to you, and to the members past and
present of genesis, and fans - blessings to you!
"matt faris" (7headedchicken.gmail.com) (10/13/10)
I don't know if your opinion has changed any since you wrote the review, but
it may help to know that this is not actually a Genesis album, but rather a
duet between Wind from Earth, Wind, & Fire and John Wuthering, called *
Genesis*. It is surprising how much they sounded like Genesis around this
time. I think they may even influenced Genesis' follow up to *Trick of the
Tail, And Then There Were Three*... (Not to mention John Wuthering is a
much better keyboardist than Tony Banks.) Okay, all unseriousness aside, I
think this is by now one of my favorite Genesis albums. From beginning to
end, there seems to be a definitely detectable unique world of care and love
that the notes belong to. A very "classical" album for them, much like
Selling..., not quite as profound in some ways, but maybe moreso in
others. The only complaint I have is that the vocals could have been
brought up more in the mix, which was done in the 2007 remasters, which I am
generally not a fan of, except in the cases of the first few albums after
Peter left.* *
Madan Mohan (madwiz.gmail.com) (08/13/11)
I do agree that it's a step down even from A Trick of the Tail which, in spite of all the energy and enthusiasm it exudes, is
already not up to the mark of the previous classics. And apart from your points re Bank Synths, W&W also suffers from a, well,
lethargic production that makes it sound flatter than it really is. But I personally prefer to rate albums based on the
contemporary musical climate and how did/does it fare in relation in 'rival' works rather than my expectations from the band which
can be heightened by some unusually rewarding releases which cannot be replicated over and over.
So, I think it's quite commendable that in 1977 when the wheels began to come off prog rock, Genesis still essentially stuck to
their strengths, crafting great songs instead of falling for prog cliches and packing in moments of great atmosphere and emotion.
In spite of the aforesaid Bank Synths and some slightly, well, commercial elements creeping in to their style, the album's largely
true to the heart of Genesis's music. The formula's gone a bit stale by now but only a bit and the album only demands the listener
to wait patiently for it to arise from its slumber rather than the immediate appeal of ATOT. And that too is in keeping with the
generally dreary mood of the music. Flawed in many ways but still very worthy. Oh, and Quiet Earth is probably their best
instrumental, those abrasive moments in the middle took me by surprise, uncharacteristic as they are of Genesis at that point and
yet sounding intuitive and apt as always.
Steven Highams (rawdon.lilly.gmail.com) (01/13/13)
Hello, John
Great site; always a good read.
Wind and Wuthering - I've always liked it, but I can see why people don't. The synths are overbearing and if you're not in the
mood, well...
'Your Own Special Way' is very pretty and I like that music-box instrumental break; the quote, or paraphrase rather, from a
Christina Rossetti poem is quite a nice touch too. And why is everyone gunning for 'One for the Vine'? I think it's rather
beautiful and those ten minutes always pass a bit too quickly for me. I listen to Foxtrot and Selling England by the Pound more
often, though I expect most people do.
Sorry for not going into any great detail, but this is my maiden voyage. I'll be back though...
Great site!
Joseph Adams (gerkinman.ntlworld.com) (10/13/15)
This was my first Genesis album, and I like it overall though I think it appeals to certain types of listeners more than others. For me, I really like most of the instrumental hooks and feel that most of the stuff holds together well. Plus, I can forgive the Banksynths if there's enough piano, organ and rhodes/wurli piano which this album has quite a lot of.
As for 'One For The Vine', I'm not going to try and make you like it but I have a difference in opinion on the lyrics. To me at least it's not about jesus but about a time loop. A guy flees from a battle, falls off the mountain and backwards in time. The people there see him appear out of nowhere and think him God's chosen one, but he wants nothing to do with it. Then he gets drunk and decides he has to go through with it. As he's leading the army, he see's himself climb back up the mountain and realises he is in fact the leader that he was following.
Again, it may not make the song any better but I though it would be interesting for you to consider.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
I can't be too down on the album overall, if only because Your Own Special Way was my parents' wedding song. And for what it's worth, I thoroughly enjoy a few of the other tracks, namely Blood on the Rooftops, Afterglow, and the best track, Eleventh Earl of Mar. But this is the first album that I'm not overly keen on, mostly due to the three instrumentals that, despite being superficially energetic, just aren't that exciting. Add to that the thoroughly uninspired All in a Mouse's Night and the dull beyond belief One for the Vine, and you have an album that just becomes a pain to sit through.
Best song: Squonk
An annoyingly mediocre live album. Looking at the song selection, it's hard to imagine that this couldn't be an extremely enjoyable experience, but sure enough, Phil and Co. managed to pull it off.
I've always found this album disappointing, but it wasn't until I acquired bootlegs from the Trick and Wind tours that I finally
understood why. To start: if you're a Genesis fan and you ever have the chance to listen to a bootleg from the Trick tour with good
sound quality, you need to jump at the chance. It's a different experience from the Gabriel era to be sure, but the band took on the
tour with a chip on its shoulder, and the show I've heard has an awesome "WE'RE STILL ALIVE, MOTHERF*#&#$S" vibe to it. Phil's
vocals don't stray much from the studio versions, but this is for the best, and there's a great combination of appropriate
reverence for the old material (they do White Mountain!) and enthusiasm in presenting the new. Of course, Phil can't quite do
Supper's Ready proper justice, and his stories are kinda silly, but he sounds like a fine replacement for Peter, and one gets the
sense the band would be in good hands for years to come.
The Wind show I've heard is nowhere near as enjoyable though (even if it has nice renditions of Eleventh Earl of Mar and the glorious rarity Inside and Out), and given that there's no indication that this was a weak show but
rather a fairly typical one, this suggests to me that I'd have problems with pretty much any show from the tour. The main culprit
is Phil; I've always considered Wind to have the weakest Phil vocals until We Can't Dance, and the tour was unfortunately not much
different. He's trying to make his own mark on the material rather than functioning as Peter's replacement, but while he basically
sounds ok on the Trick and Wind material (he sounds plenty amusing on Robbery, Assault and Battery), he kinda sounds like a fool on a lot of the other tracks. He hams up I Know What I Like
so much that he nearly ruins it by himself (the others don't help either; more on that later); I mean, it was always kind of a
silly song live, but it's almost as if he's mocking the material. Supper's Ready has all of the vocal problems it had on the '76
tour and then some; his only two modes in the song are his standard high-pitched "neutral" approach and his ultra-ham approach. The
Lamb Lies Down on Broadway loses all of its intensity; in '76 he'd preserve some of the more dramatic moments, but here he tries to
reinvent it as a standard pop song, without such treats as the "RAEL IMPERIAL AEROSOL KID" growling scream. The ending excerpt of
The Musical Box becomes sing-song-y; while he does give some heated passion to the "TOUCH ME, TOUCH ME" parts, he destroys the
creepy atmosphere of the verses. Carpet Crawl sounds worse than before simply by virtue of his voice being higher; the song is
still beautiful, but it loses power without a lower pitch or some bite in the voice. Firth of Fifth sounds fine enough, but he
sounds like somebody who really secretly dislikes the words and is only singing them because the song requries them. Point is, Phil
just does not do anything to help the older material, which is a problem when there's so much of it.
The rest of the band isn't off the hook, though. The setlist has a weirdly haphazard feel that makes it seem less like a normal
Genesis concert and more like a Genesis revue, and the effect isn't a good one. In '76 they did a shortened version of The Carpet
Crawlers, sure, but that's because it was the capstone of a medley that started with The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway; in '77, when
it comes on after Firth of Fifth, it doesn't feel like there's a good reason for it to be missing its introduction. In '76 they
closed with a jaw-dropping medley of it dissolving into Watcher of the Skies (a version is found on Three Sides Live), leaving me
wanting more; in '77 they closed with the largely punchless medley of Lamb and Musical Box. And, worst of all (and setting a
precedent for years to come), I Know What I Like turns into a lengthy boring jam in the middle, with Phil hitting himself in the
head with a tambourine (seriously!) seemingly forever, and the rest of it is only interesting from a "name what song they're
quoting" perspective (I appreciate the quotes of Moonlit Knight and Stagnation).
Well, as you might have guessed, the bulk of this album comes from the '77 tour. The one exception is the '76 version of The Cinema
Show (with Bill Bruford on drums!), but that weirdly sounds worse here than there because of placement. In context, it happened
fairly early in the show, and while the song is much less of a tender moment between listener and band than it is an energetic
show-stopper, it really worked as a way to boost up the intensity of the show (hearing Phil and Bill crashing about during the
synth climax is really something). Here, though, it's stuck near the end, and somehow just that detail ends up making the show-
stopping aspects of it sound pretty cheesy. Beyond that, though, the album rearranges the flow of the '77 show pretty
significantly, and it ends up sounding even more haphazard and revue-like than in context. People who don't care about those
aspects of live albums may not care, but for a band that had previously been so masterful in ordering its sets in a way that would
maximize tension. I mean, I may not be the biggest fan of In That Quiet Earth, but if you're going to have Afterglow you may as
well have it as the climax to something; otherwise Afterglow goes back to sounding kinda tacky to me.
Still, for all of this moaning on my part, there's plenty of good to be found. The Trick material that starts and ends the album,
in particular, conveys all of the best attributes of this era of the band as a live unit. Squonk has always been my favorite track
from this era, and this doesn't change live, but the album-closing medley of Dance on a Volcano and Los Endos (on separate tracks,
but the only good way to listen to them is ripped as a single track) reveals a potential in both that I'd never quite felt just
from the studio versions. Yup, Los Endos might have been an interesting album capstone on Trick, but it becomes one of the band's
main calling cards live, and it would be embarrassing to admit how many times I've played air-drums to the break (in this version
and others) just after the crescendo coming out of Banks' synths and before the Squonk reprise.
All together, this is a very frustrating live album, and while there are many good attributes (for all of the weaknesses from Phil
and the occasional lapses in taste from the band, it's a treat to hear the band plowing through this material with flair in a live
setting), there are nearly as many bad. If Phil's vocals in this era don't bother you, then loving this is a definite possibility
... but as for me, I'm sticking to my boots.
"Sittinger, Brian D" (brian.d.sittinger.lmco.com)
Well, it's amazing how you hit the nail on the head with so many of the Genesis
albums (through their "prog" era, at least). You hit the mark again here! The
songs are still quite decent on here, but they do not really jump at me as they
did on Genesis Live. Maybe, it's the mixing. At any rate, Steve Hackett,
although playing well, seems to have less presence as he had in the previous
live album, as well as in the Archive, to be mentioned below). Phil Collins
does an admirable job through the Gabriel-era songs here, although he may not
sing them quite like Peter Gabriel, and not with the same flair. And, of
course, the drummers are all quite good! It would be interesting to see
Bruford's takes on some of the other songs...Oh well!). Oh, and 7 out of 10 is
quite reasonable for a rating here.
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
I’d give this album the same rating as you would, but for different reasons.
As the 1976-1983 years are my favorite era of Genesis, I’m probably
predisposed to enjoy these versions more than you are, but I have got to say
that I think you could not be MORE incorrect about the live performance of
“Cinema Show” on disc 2. Not only is it superb, but in my opinion it
remained the single best live performance the band ever released until the
Genesis Archives #2 boxed set was released. I don’t hear anything forced in
the way the ending jam is handled, and believe it or not, it’s THIS track
which made me give Yes’ music serious consideration, solely because of the
impression Bill Bruford’s drumming made on me here (BTW, this is the one
song on the album which comes from the 1976 tour and not the 1977 one).
Collins is everywhere on this – he starts off singing, then he moves over
and plays the synthesizers (the soloing part!). Sure it’s a showstopper,
but it deserves that title unironically – it really earns the attention it
demands. Only the ending could be improved – too jarring.
Nah, my problem with Seconds Out is “Supper’s Ready.” Man, Phil really
slaughters that one, doesn’t he? Usually I don’t credit complaints about
Collins’ voice – after he figured out what to do with in in 1980, he was
quite formidable – but this is the one time where his inability to play
“characters” just destroys a Gabriel-era song. The mix, which submerges
what SHOULD be crackling Hackett guitar lines under Banksynths (surprise,
surprise), doesn’t help either. Bah, how could the band make “Supper’s
Ready” boring?
My other problem is “Firth Of Fifth.” First of all, I don’t want to hear
ANY version of that song without its glorious PIANO (read: not synthesizer)
introduction, and I can’t figure out for the life of me why Banks stopped
playing that part (he did only in the beginning of their 1973 tour, and had
dropped it by the time the Archives #1 performance was taped). But that
aside, what the hell is that synth doing in the middle of the song? You
know, that great bit where the piano comes crashing in after Gabriel’s
second verse, leading into the synth/guitar solos. But instead Banks plays
the tinniest, trebliest, most ineffectual synth imaginable, and maybe I’m a
nitpicker, but it nearly RUINS the track for me. After all, who listens to
“Firth Of Fith” for the lyrics?
As for “I Know What I Like,” I don’t think Collins’ voice is the problem;
the problem is that I feel like I’m listening to a football game without any
commentary. I have no real idea what’s going on. A tambourine bangs here,
wild cheers erupt there – something interesting is obviously going on. Gee,
wish I could SEE IT. And I know you must think I’m nuts, John, but the
whole “name that song” bit is handled MUCH better in the “Old Medley” on The
Way We Walk, Volume 2, where it really works because there’s no “dead air” –
Collins SINGS all the songs he references, rather than simply letting the
instruments do the talking. (In fact, the medley is the album’s one saving
grace.)
TheRubberCow.aol.com (6/10/02)
I don't really want to review this album, but rather ponder something. I
remember reading before I heard it that Phil played the keyboard solo on
"Robbery". I thought, "hmmm...that's strange." I knew he played
keyboard, but I didn't think he could play that fast. Then when I heard,
I was surprised at how much he sounded like Tony, and then to see he
played it on Cinema Show! I always thought something was a little
fishy. I just recently realized something: I don't know if it is exactly
like this on the CD, but on the vinyl version, this is how the credit is
worded:
All drums Chester except:
Maybe they are just giving drum credits here, saying that Phil played the
drums during the keyboard solos, 'cause isn't that what he did? Sing and
then go back and play drums during the instrumental sections. Yeah, it's
a misleading credit, but I think it's a more believable theory than Phil
playing those keyboard solos.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
Not nearly as good a live album as Live, or even as Three Sides Live, but
still reasonable. Phil was NEVER going to be able to sing "Supper's
Ready" as well as Peter, and it is folly to expect him to. But audiences
expected the band to play it in concert, so there it is. On the Other
hand, I think he does a sterling job of "Firth Of Fifth". 6 out of 10.
Trfesok.aol.com (08/16/07)
I like it a little bit better than you do. The playing is right on
and occasionally very exciting (particularly when both Collins and
Chester Thompson are on drums). Phil's vocals are more the issue,
even on this album. It's pretty clear that he's trying to copy
Gabriel's phrasing (although only one aspect of it), but that's fine.
The problem is the same here as on the studio albums from this period
-- his voice is so damn hard to hear. I used to think is was the
mixing, or his inability to project his voice (notice how they have
to use echo on the end of "Supper's Ready" and the coda of "The
Musical Box"), but you wouldn't think that would be troublesome on a
live album. I agree, his lack of theatricality hurts songs like "I
Know What I Like", although he makes "Robbery.." work as well as
Gabriel might have. On the other hand, his gentler style works pretty
well with "The Cinema Show" and the lovely "Afterglow." Even the end
of "The Musical Box" resonates. Removed form the context of the main
body of the song, it just sounds like a passionate love lament, and
he does pull it off, if, again, not as well as Gabriel. I just wish
he could have asserted himself vocally more so that you could
actually understand the lyrics. Of course, he did overcome that
later, but it would have been nice if he could have done so before
Hackett left.
"giannistones.hotmail.it" (giannistones.hotmail.it) (03/13/11)
THE BEST RECORDED ALBUM EVER...
THE GENESIS'S BEST EVER LP , AFTER SO MANY YEARS STILL FOR ME THE VERY BEST
LIVE ALBUM
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
I don't blame them for trying here. Given that they were only two albums into the Collins-era, it's only logical that they would load up this live album with Gabriel-era classics. The issue, however, is that Collins hadn't really found his voice when singing these pieces (for better or worse) and just did not give a particularly inspired delivery. The instrumental passages are still great in most of these tracks however, with a major assist to Chester Thompson in that regard. Cinema Show and Supper's Ready, particularly in their double-drum sections, are both quite good (which given the caliber of drum talent between Collins and Thompson/Bruford, that's not a surprise). And the Trick of the Tail/Wind material is all relatively on par, with the Dance on a Volcano/Drum Duet/Los Endos being the highlight of the set.
All in all not terrible, but they could've gone with a better song selection, and maybe a few more Trick of the Tail tour tracks. Maybe get rid of a relatively humdrum Carpet Crawlers, a sing songy I Know What I Like, the Lamb/Musical Box, and a less than exciting Afterglow and replace them with White Mountain, Eleventh Earl, Entangled, the TOTT tour Lamb Casserole medley, or Inside and Out, and then you'd have a more satisfying listen.
Best song: Follow You Follow Me
Not much of an improvement on Wind, but an improvement in some ways nonetheless. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that Steve's acrimonious departure sent a wakeup call to the band concerning the dead end they'd hit, because this album corrects at least some of the mistakes of before. The general style isn't that different; it's still centered around keyboards; the synth tones are just as monotonous and boring as before (and in some ways worse); even with Hackett gone there's not that much less guitar than on Wind (though it has much less personality than before); and the lyrics are still dumb and preachy in places. Also, there's nothing here that really comes close to the greatness of Blood on the Rooftops. BUT, there are no silly instrumentals, the songs show at least some sense of compactness (this apparently helped turn off a lot of fans to the album all by itself), more than a couple of the songs are truly memorable, none of the lyrics reach to the bile-vomit depths of One for the Vine (and some are actually fairly poetic and moving) and Phil is bothering to stick some emotion and depth into his voice on a consistent basis.
Don't get me wrong - the amount of filler is still larger than on any Genesis album to that point, barring Wind of course. The first five songs are a good chunk, and Follow You Follow Me is a fabulously catchy closer from start to finish (what an incredibly memorable chorus too!), but except for the cute Scenes from a Night's Dream (poor little Nemo is right), the other four songs don't really do much at all. Deep in the Motherlode is probably the best of the lot, as it's a somewhat interesting mix of okayish synth riffs and countryish guitar licks, but it's very overlong and wouldn't become interesting until Phil's singing got better. Many Too Many is a Banks ballad that borders waaaay too close to syruppy late-70's soft-pop in places, and it doesn't move me anywhere near as much as Undertow (mentioned below) does. Say it's Alright Joe is a country-ish ballad (except for all of the keyboard parts) from Mike that totally goes in one ear and out the other, and The Lady Lies is an overlong monster whose most notable feature is a throroughly mediocre synth and guitar riff in the chorus. It has some really great drumming, but it does little to help to overall effect: I can't shake the feeling that Phil listened to the track and thought, "Wow, this kinda sucks, I'm gonna have to do everything in my power to even make this vaguely passable." All told, then, that's about 20 minutes of material that does little to justify placement on the album (especially when the band had tracks like The Day the Light Went Out lying around), and the rating can't help but suffer because of it.
Fortunately, the first five tracks all range from above average to very good, so I can't give too low of a rating to the album. Banks' Undertow, for instance, is a far better composition than any of his crud on Wind - in particular, the "Let me live again" choral melody is positively gorgeous, and the lyrics are certainly some of the best Tony has ever given us. Special attention should also be given to Mike's pretty Snowbound, an ode to a snowman. Aside from the gorgeous acoustic melody, in the grand tradition of Ripples, it also contains Phil's best singing of the album, making lines such as "pray for the snowman" burrow deep within your soul and bring you sorrow for the snowman's fate.
The other three are good enough too. The opening Down and Out could be viewed as an inferior sequel to Eleventh Earl of Mar, but the tricky jazzy rhythms are interesting, the melody is fairly memorable, and Phil has more energy in his vocals in ten seconds of the song than in the whole ten minutes of Vine. After Undertow, then, is Ballad of Big, a bouncy country ditty with lots of cheezy synths but also an amusing riff for them. And finally, we have Tony's Firth of Fifth clone Burning Rope. Now, it couldn't possibly hope to match up with such a masterpiece, even if Mike uses the same guitar tone on the mid-song solo that Steve used five years earlier, but it's not bad. The lyrics mildly suck, of course, but the melody is memorable in spots, and the middle-jam is at least not extended long enough to get annoying. Overall, it's certainly good, even if it doesn't deserve to be over seven minutes long.
Actually, I can make a very similar statement about the album in general. If it wasn't over fifty minutes, especially when there's only about half an hour of good material on here (and only a little bit approaching greatness), I could even give it an 8 if I were feeling especially charitable. As is, though, the album's greatest strength is really that it's not Wind, and it's hard to give a high grade to an album like that. But it certainly is better than Wind - much of it's dull, sure, but given the choice between boring and pathetically awful, well, I'll take boring anyday.
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
Yeah, it’s a 6/10, and you know, lots of fans and the bandmembers
themselves complain about how badly produced all of the classic Genesis
albums (like Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme) are, but I’ve never had any problems
with them. I even liked what they did with Wind And Wuthering, to the
extent that the music on the LP was salvageable in the first place. But
....And Then There Were Three... has got to be the most misproduced album the
band ever did post-1969. What’s sad about it is that these are actually,
for the most part, good songs. Very good songs, even. “Scenes From A
Night’s Dream,” “Many Too Many,” and “Ballad Of Big” are the weakest of the
lot, but I daresay that every other track here has quite a lot to recommend
it. But jesus, you’d never know from the treatment they’re given on this
album. Whenever Collins’ vocals aren’t reverbed into a polar void they’re
buried in the soupy mix, and this sonic gumbo renders songs like “Deep In
The Motherlode,” “Say It’s Alright, Joe,” and “Undertow” almost
indistinguishable from one another.
Banksynths are also to blame here – for the first and last time I will
agree with those who say that Tony Banks’ choice of synthesizer tone totally
and singlehandedly slaughters promising material around it. And even then
it’s not always the tone itself, but the way it’s put onto tape. Hearing
the live versions of these songs on the Archives boxed set is really
instructive in this regard; these songs come ALIVE, in ways I would never
have expected, when exposed to daylight, especially “Deep In The
Motherlode,” a song which flew under the radar every time I heard it on the
album. But even “Burning Rope” and “The Lady Lies” sound they’ve been
removed from straitjackets when heard live.
So we’ve got a wretchedly-produced album of good-to-great songs. Making do
with that, I think Banks came up with some very well constructed tracks
here, like “Undertow” (which everyone seems to like) and “Burning Rope”
(okay, just ignore the lyrics, they’re not TERRIBLE). I almost forgive him
for “One For The Vine.” Almost. As for Rutherford, “Snowbound” never sat
particularly well with me – that chorus “heey, it’s a snowman” is
unbelievably lame lyrically and worse than anything Banks put on the album –
but “Say It’s Alright Joe” is another fine piece hurt by a craptacular mix.
The best song, unsurprisingly, is “Follow You Follow Me,” which has all the
pop virtues: concise, memorable, pretty, and a lovely keyboard solo to boot.
Nevertheless, with all the production problems, it’s easy to understand
how I was able to listen to this album for two years without having it make
a strong impression in any way.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
A patchy album. There are great songs, such as "Undertow", "The Lady
Lies", "Follow You Follow Me", and then there is some thoroughly
underwhelming songs like "Many Too Many" and "Scenes From A Night's
Dream". "Down And Out" only goes to illustrate my point about odd time
signatures being beyond them - the song is a mess. 6 out of 10.
Michael Pirritano (mpirritano.yahoo.ca) (07/13/12)
Pay attention to the lyrics to Snowbound.... I also thought it was an ode to a Snowman; and some death and rebirth theme; but as
someone else pointed out that doesn't seem it at all (the title conveys the meaning).
Theo Duncan <(theoduncan01.icloud.com) (12/13/16)
Actually Red House Painters did a nice cover of Follow You Follow Me. Not near their highest points on Ocean Beach and Rollercoaster but definitely worth seeking out.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
I've never quite been "into" this album, but seeing as it has more material on it that I enjoy compared to Wind and Wuthering, I can't help but see it as a relative improvement. The Lady Lies is probably the best of the bunch for me (I love the synth solo in the middle), and Burning Rope, Deep in the Motherlode, Scenes From A Night's Dream, Say It's Alright Joe, and Follow You, Follow Me are all, at worst, fine, and at best, very good tracks. The first four tracks do little to grab my attention, and Many Too Many isn't really any better, but hey, at least their slump would end in the near future.
Best song: Turn It On Again
Very, very badly underrated. With this album, Genesis took another sizable step away from the dregs of Wind, and hence from their progressive past, and that helps explain why so many people dislike this album. There are still some artistic elements, sure - the album is supposedly conceptual, there are lots of the traditional Banksynths, as well as some energetic drumming from Phil, and there are ten minutes of instrumental jamming at the end - but this is certainly the band's first major move towards becoming the "pop" Genesis. Regardless of some of the cool instrumental parts, drum machines and various elements of synth pop (including simpler songs with more mundane lyrical topics) can be found in abundance throughout.
The thing is, this album gets hammered by even devoted fans of the pop-era of Genesis for a number of reasons (though I can share their chagrin with the fact that, since it hit the top #10 on both sides of the Atlantic, it helped launch Phil's solo career). Supposedly, all of these songs are totally non-descript and lacking anything that makes them stand out in any positive way. Well, there are exactly two songs on here I don't like, so I can't say I agree with this. Like most people, I strongly dislike the mega-hit Misunderstanding, Collins' first solo credit since Peter left: what can I say, it's horrendously bland and has an utterly moronic melody. I'm also not really fond of Bank's Cul-de-sac: it's too clumsy to work as a pop song, and it just sees too dippy to work as art-rock (though I will admit that I kinda like the big goofy keyboard riff that pops up here and there). Not to mention that the lyrics are of his usual quality.
HOWEVER, I cannot share these negative sentiments past those two songs. EVERY one of the other songs has at least a couple of good things going for it, and some are just terrific. For one thing, I must tell you that, for the first time since Lamb, I am not bothered by the Banksynths. Some see his tone as horribly cheezy on this album, and there may be something to that. However, there is one major advantage they have here over the past two albums - they're much, much brighter and more cheerful than before. Maybe that's why the base color of Duke's cover is white, while the last two were so drab.
As for the songs themselves, the major highlight comes from track seven, Turn it on Again. Absolutely blatant pop, definitely disco-influenced, but how can I help it if the song is so friggin' good??!! The main melody is amazingly catchy, the bridge is fabulous ("I I get so lonely when she's not there, I ... I ... I ...."), and the chord progressions are nothing short of genial. Needless to say, it's one of the finest pop songs the band ever did, and even haters of Duke rarely fail to tip their hats to it.
But while none of the others provide quite the same wallop, they're all enjoyable. The opening Behind the Lines is a peculiar number that I keep liking more with each listen, opening with a couple of minutes of jamming in an "overture" of sorts, before settling into a neat pop song with a pretty verse melody (sung with lots of passion). Even better, though, is the following Duchess. Yes, it has drum machines, the first instance of them used on a Genesis track. But SO WHAT??!! The introduction is mellow in a creepy sort of way, and the melody is just wonderful. In particular, I love the ".. all she had to do was step into the light" parts, but the rest could stick in my brain for as long as it wanted for all I care. I actually really like the lyrics, too.
There are also a pair of Banks numbers on side one that cause me to take note. The one-minute Guide Vocal may seem like blatant filler at first glance, but one should note that it does a good job of creating the impression of Duke as a pseudo-conceptual album, not to mention that it has a lovely ethereal beauty in the pleasant vocal melody. This same ethereal beauty also helps lift Heathaze from the doldrums of the verse melodies. The counter-melody, the one that has the "The trees and I are shaken ..." lyrics, is positively gorgeous, fully making up for the fact that I couldn't remember the rest of the song with a gun to my head.
Mike also contributes a pair of solo numbers, and both times comes up a winner. Well, ok, neither one reaches the heights of Ripples or Snowbound, and both numbers are based on the same idea (unconventional verse melody, bombastic heavenly chorus) as before, but I still appreciate them. Man of our Times, in particular, is a standout on the album. The main melody, for lack of a better term, is very twisted, with Phil contorting his voice to match up with this fact, while the synth approach is in the "ugly" vein of Back in NYC, which means I can't help but enjoy it. Not to mention that I greatly appreciate the way Phil sings the chorus. Likewise with Alone Tonight, which is perfectly pleasant in the verses and beautifully memorable in the chorus.
Heck, I even like Collins' other solo credit, the piano-based ballad Please Don't Ask. I used to find it overly rambling, but it's got a ton of emotional power, driven by his recent divorce, and I'd never dream of skipping it.
And, of course, we have the jamming at the end, consisting of two tracks (Duke's Travels and Duke's End). The former, while not really structured in an immediately discernable way, has the benefit of having a lot of the energy that was sorely lacking on the instrumentals on Wind, and it also has an added surprise in a vocal reprise of Guide Vocal in the middle. And as for Duke's End, it's just a "capstone" to the themes of the album, bringing full circle the ideas first shown in Behind the Lines, but it's still very good, leaving a pleasant taste in your mouth at album's end.
Now don't get me wrong - I'm not about to call this a peak of Genesis' pop career or anything like that. It has several weaknesses, many of which would be corrected on subsequent albums. But I honestly cannot figure out why this album is regarded as one of Genesis' biggest blackeyes or embarrassments - it's just a very good album, which means I like it quite a bit.
Cole Bozman (bozmn.intercom.net)
someone else likes this album too! I knew I wasn't crazy!
anyway, I have to say that the instrumentals bore me to tears, but most
Genesis instrumentals do that to me, so I won't hold it against them. I
actually like "Misunderstanding", but I agree with you on the last couple
songs, "Cul-de-sac" and "Please Don't Ask". they're completely forgettable.
I love "Heathaze" too, despite Banks's silly lyrics. "beware the fisherman
who's casting out his line into a dry river bed" indeed.
Byron Dahms (orderdesk.centralreprographics.com)
I have been reading your critisms with a lot of interest, but was
surprised at your choice of the most poppy song on the album as your pick
for the best song. I learned to hate Follow you as well as
Misunderstanding (which is your next choice) because of there constant
airplay. I actually like these albums- not as much as Foxtrot mind you,
but not the chart hits. Snowblind and Undertow both rate higher on my
list than ....(gulp) Misunder (shudder) standings..(gag).
(five minutes later)
Oops- sorry I just accused you of making
Misunder(gulp)stand(gag)ings(barf) your pick for best song on the album-
a thousand apologies- but I will say Duchess is a better song in my mind
than Turn it on Again. I was especially glad they added it on the 2nd
boxed set ( considering all the good songs they left off - but let's not
go there).
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/15/01)
okay, too many people are putting down instrumentals, and I just wanted to
defend them, and Genesis instrumentals before they get too hurt, though
that's not likely, given how strong they usually are. The end of Duke's
travels (and you might think I'm crazy) is almost as good as the end of
Supper's Ready. I think it was put best by reviewer (Chris Welch) who said
that it sounds like it was inspired by moonlight and brandy.
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
You’re damn RIGHT this album is seriously underrated! I’m actually glad
I’m not tuned in to what the general “fan opinion” of certain Genesis albums
is, since I had no idea that this was so widely despised, and I can’t for
the life of me understand why it should be. Well, I have a theory that
involves “Misunderstanding” and a bad case of myopia, but that’s
speculation. Save “Misunderstanding,” and “Heathaze” (I’d take “Cul-De-Sac”
over “Heathaze” anyday – the lyrics may be the usual Bankshibboleths, but
that music is too melodically inventive to be ignored), though, this album
is all aces. “Turn It On Again” is unimpeachable disco-pop, “Duchess”
proves that one musical idea is all you need provided it’s a good enough
idea (“and all she had to do was step INTO THE LIGHT...”) and I’m impressed
that Rutherford’s forays into the treacherous swamps of pop balladry (“Alone
Tonight;” see also “Your Own Special Way,” “Ripples,” and “Like It Or Not”)
rarely get bogged down in the usual goopy musical cliches which plague the
genre. I also think “Please Don’t Ask” is rather powerful, actually. As
you said, Collins’ writing is best when he focuses on really unhappy
love/lust, and I feel all the weight of a messy, nasty divorce (one which
almost broke the band up, no less) in that song. There aren’t any cheap
musical or lyrical cliches, the piano opening is a nice touch, and it ends
on the proper note of unresolved glumness.
But there are two things which make me really enjoy this album:
1.) After a two year break, Collins has somehow figured out what to do with
his singing voice. Duke is the first album where he puts that wonderful
roar into the high registers of his range; “Man Of Our Times,” “Duchess,”
and “Turn It On Again” all feature it, and you never heard it on any of the
earlier albums. More than anything else, it’s what turned him into a strong
singer – can you imagine how pathetic “Mama” would have sounded if he had
sung it in the same voice he used for “Ripples” back in 1976? (It’s no
accident that the live version on the boxed set comes from...you guessed it,
1980.)
2.) All the jamming. As much as I like “After The Ordeal,” I think “Duke’s
Travels/Duke’s End” is the finest piece of jamming the group would ever do.
It builds, twists, turns, winds itself around weird, jagged corners, and by
the time it’s tumbled into that catharctic reprise of “Guide Vocal” it’s
built up such unbearable tension that it only seems natural to end it the
way they do, with a full stop and then a surprise dash to the finish line.
By the way, as good as it is on the album, I don’t think I’m falling victim
to annoying hyperbole when I say it’s a trillion times better live, as heard
on the Archives box. Moonlight and brandy indeed. 8/10.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
I think this album is a corker. I like every song except
"Misunderstanding", particularly "Behind The Lines", Duchess" and "Man Of
Our Times". Sure, the prog element was not there, except on parts of
"Duke's Travels", but look at all the other prog bands at the time - ELP
had split up, King Crimson had split up, and would reform playing
decidedly non-prog (but absolutely wonderful) music, Yes released
"Drama", split up the next year, then reappeared in 1983 as a pop
band.... Punk had done it's nasty work (and I actually like some punk
music!). Definitely 9 out of 10 for this one.
Kit Klarenberg (kitklarenberg.hotmail.com) (1/17/05)
Hello John, just a random comment for the Genesis record DUKE.
Picked this up recently, my first Genesis experience (yes, feel free to
lambast me for not picking up Foxtrot, Selling England By The Pound or
Lamb Lies Down On Broadway first). I think it skirts between concept
(Duke's Travels, Duke's End + Duchess, certainly three of the strongest
tracks on the album) and straight-songs very well. Phil's voice is
superb, the drum machine is super and the songs are hypnotic. Duchess is
probably my favourite track on the album, and seems like an early
precursor to the classic MAMA, on their eponymous record. A highly
enjoyable listen is Duke.
trfesok.aol.com (07/13/10)
This one really grew on me over the years, but I didn't like a lot of it at first,
mainly because of the production and arrangements. Hackett is sorely missed, in
particular. Mike's guitar, as you've said, continues to head for hopelessly generic
80's playing. The only interesting thing he does is that distortion effect on "Alone
Tonight" and the outtake "Open Door". Tony unfortunately also heads further away
from acoustic piano, organ and mellotron to colder synth sounds. In particular, that
tinkly Yamaha synth piano gets kind of annoying at times. At least his choices in
sounds are less bland and monotonous than on the last album.
As for the songs, I also don't like three, but not the same three. Except for
"Misunderstanding", of course. You weren't around in the day, when this dreary, dull
thing was ENDLESSLY played on the radio. Hate, hate, always will hate it. "Please
Don't Ask" smacks too much of Phil's upcoming solo schmaltz for me to really like
it. "Man of our Times" is the third weak link for me. The chorus is attractive, but
the guitar riff in the verses is very awkward, and there are barely any lyrics. If
they needed two Mike solo numbers, they should have used "Open Door" instead. That's
a very beautiful song, but maybe too minimalist (vocal, guitar, piano, synth, no
drums) to fit it.
I like the rest a lot. The group composed tracks, linked by Tony's "Guide Vocal",
are the best tracks, with the concluding instrumentals referring back to the vocal
numbers in very clever ways. The lyrics are good, and Phil does his best singing yet
on a Genesis album. "Alone Tonight" is a touching pop ballad that doesn't yet
descend into the corniness that Mike eventually also proved he could provide (the
lyrics to "Throwing it All Away" -- barf). As for Tony, well, it was quite
predictable that you'd hate "Cul-de-Sac", since your favorite keys man mines the
"Knife"/"One for the Vine" vein again. I actually find the song dynamic and
interesting, although it would have worked better with a different production.
"Heathaze" manages to be introspective emotional (I like the "I feel like an
alien.." part a lot), despite it being a bit overblown (the word "whereas", which is
overly pretentious, even by Tony's standards). I like it, but I might have given
the edge to "Evidence of Autumn", although the old-timey piano part that comes in
sounds a bit weird. On the whole, I think I'd upgrade it to an 8 from your 7,
because the B/C/R songs are very strong.
The 2007 remix doesn't dramatically improve the sound, but it is good. The
accompanying DVD includes a video from the 1980 tour, recorded in London.
Interesting to see Collins operate the drum machine on "Duchess".
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
I disagree that Duke is the group's most underrated album, mostly because I feel like most "fans" of the group immediately say that Duke is the most underrated. It has such a reputation for being underrated that it doesn't feel underrated anymore. I think that distinction could go to Genesis or Nursery Cryme (and, depending on your views on the matter, Invisible Touch).
That's not to say I don't thoroughly enjoy this album. I just disagree with the reputation it is given. I'd even go as far as to say I love this album. Something clicked here that wasn't clicked in during ATTWT. The playing is more cohesive, and thus more inspired, there is far more energy and enthusiasm for the material being played, and (that's probably because) said material is much, much better than just about everything on the previous two albums.
I love all the songs in the "Story of Albert" sequence. The best of album's material is consolidated in these six tracks, especially with Duke's Travels, Turn It On Again, and my top pick, Duchess. Most of the other tracks all work in some way, though I'm not really a fan of Heathaze or Alone Tonight. Collins gives two surprisingly strong solo tracks, and Rutherford and Banks both redeem themselves with Man of our Times and Cul-de-Sac.
As a postscript for this comment, I've just scheduled an appointment at a tattoo parlor to get the man on the album cover (who I assume is named Albert) on my left shoulder. It's a tribute to both the band and to my father.
Best song: Abacab or Dodo/Lurker
Experimental synth pop, if you can believe for a second that anything like that could possibly exist. And it's really really good! After the commercial success of both Duke and Collins' solo debut Face Value, one might think that the band would have chosen to simply rest on their laurels and begin churning out clones of those albums. Fortunately, neither of those turned out to be true - the band seemingly took it upon itself to become a sort of Godfather to the rest of the synth pop world, looking for new ideas that would possibly make this genre worthwhile in the long run, and as for the second one, Collins still had enough discipline within him to keep his solo style from seeping in and infesting the group's work. The material is filled with synthesizers, drum machines and sequencers, but they are used in a far more interesting and novel manner than one might find in other albums of the day.
Most importantly, though, a LOT of these melodies are ridiculously enjoyable. They're far more hook-filled and energetic than most of the songs on Duke, which I enjoy but also can be a bit too lethargic at times. This, of course, prompts a question - where the heck was the group hiding all of these melodies the past few years? Well, your thoughts may vary, but my opinion is that in the last few albums, the band had had some difficulty coming to terms with the fact that their status as progressive rock heroes was a thing of the past. Abacab is, arguably, the first album that wipes away nearly ALL of the bad Wind influences - Duke may have been a sizable jump in its own right, but the songs bore several resemblences to Three, which in turn held on to some Wind traits.
And lookie here! The lyrics have been "simplified," but they've also gotten rid of the boring cliches that plagued the band the last few years, while still retaining a fair amount of intelligence. Meanwhile, some of the songs are reasonably lengthy, with some jamming here and there, but even in that context, the band has discovered a new identity for itself - even the lengthy Dodo/Lurker, arguably a full-blown progressive suite, bares little resemblance to the previous progressive pieces of the group.
The material of the album can generally be divided into two parts - the lengthier, more artsy pieces, and shorter and more "normal" songs. The title track is probably the best of all of these, and in my mind possibly the finest synth pop number ever written (yes, I'm aware that making such statements is probably irresponsible, but who's gonna stop me? Huh? Huh?). The main melody and chorus are incredibly catchy, the cool 80's robotic synths help rather than hinder, and the last three minutes are a cool robotic groove! On first listen, one might scoff at it a bit, wondering why the band would bother recording such a "pathetic jam," especially when it's propelled by drum sequencers, but Mike's guitar does a fabulous job of working with the synths, creating a memorable experience all the way to the ending fadeout.
The other two artsy pieces are good as well. Banks' solo composition Me and Sarah Jane doesn't enthrall me as much as it probably should, but some of the melodies are fairly interesting (and I really like the "round round round"/"down down down" part), not to mention it's neat the way it has a false fade-out so early in the song. Plus, the last couple of minutes are very pretty when they're on, so yeah, it's a good song. Not as good as Dodo/Lurker, though. Oh sure, it might seem a bit disconcerting to hear such cheezy synths playing an ominous pair of chords to kick things off, but strangely enough, they help add to the charm of the piece as a whole. Meanwhile, the various melodies are memorable as hell, the synth-and-drum-machine groove is tons of fun to listen to, the lyrics are hilariously intriguing, and Phil puts in one of the best vocal performances he ever would muster up on a Genesis album, contorting his voice into all sorts of characterizations throughout. He even raps in Lurker, for crying out loud! Of course, my brother hates Lurker for that very reason (he calls it the most pathetic example of rapping he's ever heard in his life), but whatever.
As for the more "normal" material, none of it fascinates me quite as much as does Dodo, but much of it is quite good regardless. No Reply at All may strike one on first listen as extraordinarily clumsy, thanks to the horns (real horns, not synth-horns) and the awkward melody in the opening line, but further listens reveal it to be very enjoyable regardless. It has a very, very engaging song structure, the melodies turn out to be memorable after all, and the ending lengthy "There's no reply at all - is anybody listening" fadeout is a blast. Keep it Dark may also strike one as very awkward initially (though it becomes very cool eventually), but that's merely because it's deceptively complex, switching between time signatures aggressively throughout. Plus, Phil's vocals sound weirdly distorted in places, the result of Banks layering his synths in a slightly unconventional manner.
The last four tracks, alas, let down the album just a whee bit. Not a LOT, but just enough to move it out of borderline-B territory. Who Dunnit?, for instance, is a silly little proto-techno groove with Phil singing stupid lyrics like "Was it you or was it me? Or was it he or she" and "I didn't do it I I didn't do it I" and especially the incessant "we know we know we know" chantings. The thing is, I actually enjoy the track while it's on (everybody needs some guilty pleasures in their lives) ... but I can very easily see where it would annoy most people. Likewise, I do gain some degree of enjoyment from Collins' Man on the Corner, as it is quite memorable, but like most solo Collins numbers, it's extremely lightweight and lacking anything truly substantial to latch onto.
Mike's Like it or Not also fails to thrill me - I do like the ascending guitar line that pops up frequently, but after several listens, that is the ONLY part of the song that I can remember. It tries hard to be one of his typically heavenly bombastic ballads, but the formula has at least temporarily run dry for Rutherford. Fortunately, the album doesn't end on a down note, instead resolving itself with the perfectly enjoyable Another Record. Banks switches to piano, finally, and it works surprisingly effectively with Collins' electronic percussion and Mike's subtle guitar calls. It's not exactly a masterpiece, as the melody isn't extremely memorable (except for the chorus), but since that chorus is repeated in the lengthy fadeout, it does a good job of leaving a good taste in your mouth.
So what do you know? Genesis loses its two most talented musicians, stagnates badly for a couple of years, and yet manages to re-emerge as leaders in a field totally different from where it found its initial glory. Now that is a sure sign of a really talented band. And this "Genesis mark-2" hadn't even hit its peak yet!
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
An experimental synth-pop masterpiece. A genre-bending reinvention by a
band that was beginning to show alarming signs of age. A commercial
breakthrough which was also, miraculously, an artistic breakthrough as well.
Yes, when I think of the glory of Abacab, I think of the single most
brilliant song of Genesis’ career, the one piece of music which encapsulates
everything that made them worthwhile. You know the one I’m talking about...
“Was it you or was it me? Or was it he or she? Or was it A or B? Or was
it X or Z?”
Awwww, yeah... Top that, Lord Byron.
Okay, measured objectivity will have to stand aside for this album, since
Abacab is my favorite “pop”-era album, even if it’s qualitatively inferior
to Genesis. (Full disclosure: This was the first Genesis album I ever
bought, back when I was eight and heard “No Reply At All” on one of my dad’s
tapes. I didn’t buy the second one until 10 years later) What I find so
fascinating about the album (and its attendant B-sides like “Submarine,”
“You Might Recall,” and “Naminanu,” which are worth seeking out on the boxed
set) is, as you said, its workshop atmosphere. There’s an almost academic
feel to some of this material, like the band is vivisecting normal pop songs
and rebuilding them their way; grafting on old prog tricks plus some
newly-minted New Wave mutations of their own to create something new. The
result is stuff which can be as tipping-off-kilter-weird as “Keep It Dark”
while simultaneously being as naggingly contagious and hookish as...well, as
“Keep It Dark.” Or “No Reply At All,” where Earth, Wind & Fire encounter
Tony Banks and find the place where tangled song-structure (listen to the
keyboard and the chord changes!) and pop hooks meet and shake hands. And
lest we forget, Collins follows through on the promise his singing showed on
Duke. And just like Duke, the best tracks on this album are the
group-composed ones (which is why they took the groupthink approach to the
next album, I’d wager); it’s the solo pieces where the cracks in the facade
are visible. “Man On The Corner” may be the weakest song on the album (next
to the experimental squib of “Who Dunnit?” which like you I enjoy guiltily,
especially for Collins’ progressively overheating vocals), but it’s not a
disaster by any means, just unsubstantial. If anything, I suppose I’d
criticize Tony Banks for marring another one of his wonderful melodic
assemblages with lyrics that are little more than portentous nonsense;
however, the various moods and melodies of “Me And Sarah Jane” manage to
overcome the words.
But seriously (arrgghh, there really WASN’T any pun intended...), Abacab may
not be perfect, or even the best Collins-era album (so I won’t give it the
10/10; either A Trick Of The Tail or Genesis vie for that honor), but it
represents the triumph of the group over time, attrition, the odds, and
their own worst instincts.
As such, it’s as good an explanation as any why I have such an affection for
this group. You see, they’re survivors, John. Successful prog-rockers who
actually managed to remake themselves successfully into art-poppers, and
what’s more managed to sustain it (unlike, say, Yes). That means not only
that they had to grow as composers, but that they had to do something far
more difficult, which is to unlearn comfortable habits and embrace new modes
of musical thinking. And all of them actually pulled it off.
Even Tony Banks! 9/10.
Adrian Denning (adrian.adriandenning.com) (5/07/02)
I think that the remaining members of Genesis were
partly inspired by the more experimental solo career
of Peter Gabriel to stretch out a little themselves.
They don't always suceed on every song that's here,
personally i don't much care for 'Who Dunnit?' for
example which seems a little too experimental at the
expense of melody. The title song is a piece of
brilliance though. It's the first Genesis song I
remember hearing when I was young. I liked it then,
and I like it now. A generally strong album, this.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
Another great album from the three piece Genesis. Like you (we agree for
once!) my favourites are "Abacab" and "Dodo/Lurker", plus I'll throw in
"Keep It Dark". It would get a 9 out of 10 if it wasn't for "Whodunnit",
but since it IS there, 8.5 out of 10 is its final mark from me.
Trfesok.aol.com (09/14/08)
Face Value had sold more than any Genesis album up to this point,
plus "Misunderstanding" had been their biggest single, so it's no
surprise that Collins would start having an even bigger influence.
That's not 100% bad, at least at this point. For one thing, he
brought along his engineer, Hugh Padgham, with him. This album has a
much better sound than the previous two. Collins also delivers his
best, most assertive lead vocal performances yet.
The band was deliberately going for a more abstract sound (the cover
art was also chosen to reflect this), so the extended groove numbers
have rather loose lyrics. "Who Dunnit?" is indeed the most annoying,
with those inane lyrics (Mike actually helped play the drums when
they did this number live). The title track is the best of these, I
have to agree. "Dodo/Lurker" is sort of a weirder version of "Behind
the Lines", but it is more fun. "No Reply at All" is the most obvious
lift from Collins's solo work (play this one back to back with "I
Missed Again"), with those EWF horns, but Tony's appropriation of the
keyboard technique from "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" makes the
song a bit more interesting. "Me and Sarah Jane" continues Tony's
stories of post-apocalyptic nightmares, although the bouncy second
section reminds me a lot of the bridge from "Evidence of Autumn."
"Man on the Corner" is a bit boring, but at least it doesn't go on
too long. Unlike you, though, I find the last two numbers do have
some emotional resonance. "Like it Or Not" is a very moving number,
particularly at the end. "Another Record" does cover more or less the
same territory as the Kinks' "Rock and Roll Fantasy", but it is
touching. So, the album turned out to be a pretty strong one, if you
can adjust to the major changes in style.
I filled out my tape with the out takes that eventually appeared on
the 3 Sides Live and Archive 2. "You Might Recall" (Rutherford's
lyrics, I'd bet) is pretty good, I think, driven by the drums, and
that glockenspiel is a nice touch. The best part "Me And
Virgil" wouldn't be Collins' hick lyrics, but Mike's Roger
McGuinn-esque guitar solo. I like "Paperlate" better than "No Reply
At All", a much brighter tune. "Naimananu" is another fun groove with
another McGuinn-type guitar solo. "Submarine", to me, sounds like
Pink Floyd (specifically, "Shine on My Crazy Diamond"), with a slow
creeping synth. On my tape, it leads into the 12-inch version of
"Mama", which makes the atmosphere even scarier.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
This stands as quite possibly the most consistent album that group has released. It's certainly not perfect, but it's damn good throughout, and while I'm not blown away for the most part, there is really nothing offensive or bad in this album that comes to my attention.
Indeed, most of the tracks are very strong. It's hard to pick a best track, because when I think about it, Dodo/Lurker is better in studio, but Abacab was much better live. Call it a toss up between the two. Me and Sarah Jane is another contender, but I don't quite hold it in the same regard because it took me a significant amount of time to warm to. No Reply at All proves to be a great with the addition of the Phenix Horns, Keep it Dark is interesting for its' time signature and lyrics, Who Dunnit? is absurd but not bad, and Collins provides another great solo track in Man on the Corner.
Best song: it/Watcher Of The Skies
The rating for this album may not be that much higher than the one for Seconds' Out, but this is a case where numbers can be deceptive. This is a far superior live album to its predecessor - the song selection may not be as theoretically strong, as it relies heavily on the pop-oriented material of the last few albums rather than the classic Gabriel-era material, but the performances are far better as a whole. Rather than butcher classic songs because Phil and Co. felt an obligation to play them (even though Phil just couldn't handle many of those tracks), the band was able to work with material it had come up with itself and as such felt comfortable performing.
As expected, the first portion draws completely from the last three albums. Moreover, as though the band knew themselves that Three wasn't so hot, the band relies mostly on Duke (Turn it on Again, Behind the Lines, Duchess, Misunderstanding) and Abacab (Dodo/Lurker, Abacab, Me and Sarah Jane - good boys!). As a result, this portion functions decently as a best-of collection of the recent material. For the most part everything is done equivalently and thus equally well as before, with only Turn it on Again as a little worse (thanks to Phil's blubbering) and Abacab as a little better (an even more convincing coda). This makes this portion a bit superfluous, sure, but it's ok.
Ah ha, but just when you thought you'd be in the land of early 80's pop forever, the band goes back to its prog roots, and
in the process creates one of its greatest live calling cards. For whatever reason, In the Cage seems PERFECTLY suited to
Phil's vocal style here, as he gives a heated delivery that retains all the firey emotion of the original and then some. The
band then expands the song into a medley, bringing out the ending portion of Cinema Show (which sounds much less annoying
here than on Second's Out) mixed with parts of THE COLONY OF SLIPPERMEN, and even with a quote from Riding the Scree.
And then it all ends with a fine rendition of Afterglow, which is far better than the studio version, thanks to a vocal
workout that actually shows some real passion. It sounds so good here, honestly, that my mind has settled on the idea that
the rightful place for Afterglow was always at the end of this medley, and not as the Wind closer.
After the fadeout from Afterglow, the album splits in two, between the American and British releases. The American version was true to the title - the first three sides of the album are live, while the fourth contains five studio tracks. The British version, on the other hand, eschews the studio numbers for two live tracks from a '78 show and even one from the '76 tour (with Hackett on guitar! Alright!). The British version made it onto CD, but that doesn't matter here - thanks to the miracle of mp3's, I'm able to have BOTH fourth sides at my disposal. Hence both sides will get some thoughts.
The live side is of mixed quality. On the one hand, it opens with the full ten minutes of One for the Vine, which sickens me as I imagine all sorts of idiotic people who think they're intelligent and deep swaying back and forth in a psuedo-meditative fashion as if they've been somehow been touched by this grand performance. Kinda like all the hicks I saw around when Kansas opened for Yes at a show I saw in 2000 ... But anyway. The other two live tracks rule something fierce. Simply based on clarity of production, one could easily argue that this runthrough of Fountain of Salmacis surpasses the original - the mix isn't so annoyingly bass-heavy, after all. And again, SHOCKINGLY good vocals from Phil - I guess he had worked hard at making himself not so unbearable on the older stuff.
The absolute peak of it all, though, comes at the end. it is done fabulously, at a faster clip than originally and Hackett obviously enjoying his slight release from studio bondage. But then as you expect the song to just fade out normally with Phil improvising over the "it's only knock and know all" coda, out of nowhere comes the majestic organs of Watcher of the Skies and some cries of Hackett guitar. The applause that pops up from this is fully justified, I think - the effect is amazingly seamless, and it's just so nice to hear the ending chunk of Watcher again.
The studio side, on the other hand, is kinda mediocre. Paperlate is in the vein of No Reply at All (mostly because of the horns), and while it's nowhere near as idiosyncratic, it has some clear power, and overall it's a good song. You Might Recall shows a BIT of promise here and there, but doesn't fulfill it, Me and Virgil is just clumsy as hell, and Open Door is another in Rutherford's row of guitar-based ballads, but not one that suggests his gift was still there. Evidence of Autumn, however, is AWESOME, though I overlooked it at first. I initially thought it had a pleasant enough atmosphere but no hooks, but I wouldn't dream of it: the hooks are definitely there, just a little hard to dig up, and in addition to the gorgeous atmosphere it also has a totally unexpected upbeat piano part in the middle as a contrast.
But again, the studio side is irrelevant to today's consumer, as the only available version is the one with the fourth live side. And that version is a good little album - not one you really need, and certainly not worth the more than $20 charged for it, but a good album nonetheless.
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
Bah. Unexpectedly disappointing. I find this to be remarkably boring
until the second disc, where all the old prog stuff has been stashed.
That’s strange because I actually think that the Duke and Abacab tracks are
some of the best work the band has done in any era, but these live
performances seem slightly stale in a way which NEVER happens on the Archive
set or even Seconds Out (to say nothing of Genesis Live, which practically
levitates itself off of your turntable in a fit of snooty highbrowed prog
agitation). Aside from “Duchess,” which would still be brilliant even if it
was performed on xylophones and trashcans, the fun only really begins with
“In The Cage,” and its attendant medley which manages to jack the adrenaline
level up several notches. This is probably the best live medley Genesis
ever did, because it flows so naturally. In that spirit, I quite enjoy this
version of “Afterglow,” which seems like the only fitting conclusion to the
affair. But then you gotta suffer through “One For The Vine!” (which is
from 1980, not 1978, but who’s counting?). Additionally, I disagree with
you on “Fountain Of Salmacis” – I think the performance here is really
average at best, but since the piece is so strong and its appearance on a
1982 Genesis live album so bizarre, I like it. What reallly disappoints me,
however, is that UTTERLY PISS-POOR performance of “it.” How you can like
that is beyond me – they took an awesome rocker and turned it into a limp
dishrag. Steve Hackett should be ashamed of himself! As much as I love the
song (it’s probably my favorite or near-favorite from The Lamb), this
performance comes close to actively revolting me. They recover some lost
ground with a neat instrumental “Watcher,” but all in all, this is
probably the most soporific live album the band did.
Oh wait: The Way We Walk, Vol. 1 Okay, fine, but I’d still give this a
5/10.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
A very good live album, a marked improvement on Seconds Out. "In The
Cage" is best for me, but all the material is well played and good sound
quality. 7.5 out of 10.
Trfesok.aol.com (10/05/08)
Yes, they don't veer too much from the studio versions, but it's a
pretty good release. "Misunderstanding" is as obnoxious and boring as
ever, and, I agree, Phil's done better performances of "Turn it On
Again" (for example, during a show from the 1980 tour broadcast by
the BBC), and Mike doesn't quite nail the guitar part from "Follow
You, Follow Me." But the rest of the tracks from the previous two
albums are done quite nicely. It is fun to play "spot that riff"
with the "In the Cage" medley, and "Afterglow" is very pretty here.
As for the fourth, proggier live side, a mixed bag. I don't quite get
why "One for the Vine" gets such hatred, but I don't know the studio
version. Banks may not be saying much more than Gabriel did with "The
Knife", but I don't hate the lyrics. The instrumental middle part is
sort of so-so (no great solos), but I do like the dual drumming on
this portion. I can take of leave this version of "It", but it is
cool how they tacked on the outro to "Watcher of the Skies". It's nice
to hear that they were still toting around a Mellotron in 1980 for
"The Fountain of Salmacis", and I agree that Collins does a great job
on the vocals. So, if you don't want to bother with the previous two
studio albums, this is a nice alternative.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (08/13/17)
For me, this album is probably the most satisfying of Genesis' live albums. Their latter three are more cash-grabby than anything (though Live Over Europe is a touch better than okay), Seconds Out just doesn't have the spark or passion necessary, and Genesis Live, though fantastic, came out an album too early and is simply not long enough to feel complete. This album was released at the right time and features Collins-Era Genesis at a point where they'd finally found and sustained their rhythm.
And I agree with your assessment on the track listings. Nothing, with the possible exception of Misunderstanding, feels out of place, and it helps that the playing is up to Genesis standard, especially on my pick for best track, the In The Cage/Cinema Show/Riding the Scree/Colony of Slippermen showcase.
Best song: Mama
Genesis' absolute pop peak. Whereas Abacab was largely an experimental laboratory, Genesis finds the group taking all of the lessons and discoveries of before and synthesizing them into a shiny, beautiful pop masterpiece. If you've come to believe that nothing good could come from the mouth or mind of Phil, THIS is the place to go to wean yourself off of that idea. Whereas on previous albums, Phil's vocals were quite often a liability, his singing throughout is quite possibly the most impressive technical feature of the album. Also, the band's use of drum machines has finally reached a point where its incessant use can be fully justified - not once on the whole album do they become annoying, and in several places, they are positively genial. And finally, these melodies mostly RULE - only one or two of the songs sag at all, and the rest will get stuck in your head for hours on end (and even better, you'll WANT these songs stuck in your head!).
First of all - Collins-era Genesis doesn't get any better than Mama. I know I said in the previous review that Abacab was probably the finest synth pop number ever written, but Mama I can't even necessarily classify as pop - it's far too angry and heated throughout for me to feel comfortable calling it synth-pop (though maybe I should, in which case, Mama wins the synth-pop dominance competition). But whatever may be, one listen to Mama could single-handedly remove all predjudices with regard to pop Genesis. For one thing, the drum machine programming is absolutely incredible - it's a menacing little shuffle, a combination of what almost sound like maracas and some rhythmic pounding, not to mention some omnious sounds from Tony's keys in the background to build up the tension. And then there's Phil, who demonstrates quite aptly that almost NOBODY can beat him when it comes to singing pissed-off songs of love and lust (too bad he so rarely writes songs like that ...). From his scary "ha-ha's" to the way he's able to scream out his desperation for the woman in question, this is by far the best vocal performance that Collins would ever give as lead vocalist for the band, and in and of itself would make the song a classic. But the way it all combines ... damn. Damn.
Of course, the rest of the album can't really hope to live up to such an amazing beginning, but it nearly does nevertheless. Only one of the songs I would count as definite filler, the closing It's Gonna Get Better. The verses have some interesting stuff going on in them, with a bizarre keyboard-strings pattern underpinning parts of it, but there's a large stretch in the middle that's way too obviously influenced by Collins and that has the audacity to feature him going into falsetto. To a lesser extent, though, I could say the same thing about Taking it All Too Hard - it's not bad, and is fairly well developed, but ... well, the best way I can put it is that, by this point, when Collins is singing a song that doesn't have a good amount of drive or energy or bounce, it's hard to avoid the stench of banality. It could be a lot worse than it is in this case, but again, it could be better.
Fortunately, I have virtually no complaints about the rest of the album. EVERY one of the other songs is a stone-cold Genesis classic, pop or no pop. That's All was the biggest hit of the album, and deservedly so, as the melody is probably the catchiest in the batch from start to finish (though I must note that the "head down to my toes" hook reminds me a bit too much of a hook from a track off of Procol Harum's A Salty Dog, I forget which song at the moment). But egads, Silver Rainbow sure isn't any worse, and might be better. The cute little piano riff that drives forward the song rules, the vocal melody is ingenious, and the chorus soars!! It is easily my second favorite on the album, and I consider it a shame they didn't end the album on this note.
There's also a pair of more up-tempo numbers, and they're just as fun. Illegal Alien may have a somewhat dippy topic (and the accompanying picture of the band in the sleeve is atrocious), but Phil's vocal delivery is hilarious throughout, and you just have to admit that chorus is fun to sing along to. And, of course, there's Just a Job To Do, which I absolutely adore and so should you. I don't like synth horns anymore than the next man, but they're completely appropriate in the way Tony uses them, and the melody is, per usual, positively incredible. The lyrics also rule mightily here, looking into the mind of a hired hitman who knows that his future victims are scared out of their wits since they know he's around.
Now, what puts off many fans with regard to this album is the centerpiece of the album, and arguably the only trace of "progressive" to be found throughout, the Home by the Sea/Second Home by the Sea suite. Now, what obviously bothers most people of the suite is the Second chunk, where Tony and Mike decide to putter around a bit over a drum loop. The thing is, I know that from a technical standpoint, there's almost nothing to it, but I have absolutely no problems with this instrumental passage - it's very engaging in its simplicity, moving through some perfectly enjoyable and memorable passages with no problem. Ironic, isn't it? As soon as Genesis stopped trying to make their jamming pointlessly complex (since they were theoretically required to do so by the 'tenents' of progressive), I suddenly learned to enjoy their lengthy instrumental parts! But whatever - the main melody is fairly complex, sure, but it rules. So there.
This is a great album. If you're only a fan of the prog Genesis, you'll probably hate it, but I hope so very much that you can overcome any "anti-pop" bias and enjoy this collection of great pop. Enjoy it - it's also the last good album Genesis would ever make.
Byron Dahms (orderdesk.centralreprographics.com)
Oh how I hate this album. 'Nuff said.
Rich Bunnell (richbunnell.home.com)
Oh how I love this album. 'Nuff said.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/15/01)
YES! EXACTLY! the vocals on "Mama" and "Home By the Sea" are his best, and
are what got me into Genesis in the first place. I had heard Invisible
Touch, but when I heard "Mama", I was seriously think I was hypnotised into
buying the album. The first time I ever felt like I HAD to have an album.
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
You know what’s particularly great about this album that nobody else
points out? The lyrics. Seriously. The subject matter of these songs
would do any clever, insufferably hip PoMo band proud, but the pop textures
and melodies of these tracks go over so slyly that you hardly notice just
how truly cracked some of these concepts are. Let’s see, we’ve got a guy
who develops a near-murderous obsession with a hooker (“Mama”), a burglar
trapped in a modern house of horrors (“Home By The Sea”), murder-for-hire
from the killer’s point of view (“Just A Job To Do”), a WONDERFULLY wry
metaphorical take on scoring with chicks which flies right over the heads of
almost everybody (or didn’t you realize that the “Silver Rainbow” is
actually an open zipper? Listen to those lyrics again...), and my favorite,
a tale of immigration woe. “Illegal Alien” is unfairly catchy, and so
hilariously offensive and stereotypical that I seriously doubt it could be
written today. That blithe willingness to offend – they’re oblivious to
American sensitivities in a way only the British can be – is a large part of
its charm, along with a chorus which is probably the most instantly
memorable hook on the album. When you add to that tracks like “That’s All”
and “Taking It All Too Hard” (love songs which do the genre proud), I can
give this album an easy 9, maybe even a 10/10.
Shame they couldn’t have ended it here. Now comes the long slow,
progressive decline.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
I'm going to go against the flow here. I do like this album, but not as
much as Duke or Abacab. "Mama" is undoubtedly great, as is "Home By The
Sea/Second Home By The Sea" which I always think of as one track. But I
am not a big fan of "That's All" or "Taking It All Too Hard" which sound
generic to me, they are alright songs but lack distinctiveness. 8 out of
10.
Meldrain.aol.com (06/07/03)
Wow, no one bothered pointing out which Procol song you were thinking of.
I'm pretty sure it's 'The Milk Of Human Kindness,' also a great song, and
I prefer Procol to Collins era Genesis anyday, but it's still a great
album; don't diminish the greatness of 'That's All' too much on account
of the (most likely coincidental) hook theft.
Trfesok.aol.com (07/15/06)
Well, the album is an easier listen today, when Phil Collins is no
longer oversaturating the airwaves. I don't think it's as interesting
as Abacab, but the songs are generally more coherent, especially
lyrically. As with all of the post-Hackett albums, the guitar
presence is pretty weak. "Mama" is a bit too much of a retread of "In
the Air Tonight" for my taste, but it's OK. The rather obscure
"Silver Rainbow" (the only track to neither get a single release nor
a live performance) has a pretty cool churning backing track. "Taking
it All Too Hard" has more emotional resonance than a typical Collins
ballad. "Second Home by the Sea" is somewhat draggy, (live, it wasn't
all that exciting to watch), but it's not as fillerish as stuff on
W&W, anyway. It's an above average pop album, I agree, but I was well
missing the 70's by then.
"Daniel Bosch" (bicycle.legs.optusnet.com.au) (10/13/10)
I just wanted to correct one thing in your overview. You spoke of Phil's
wizardry with a drum machine (I agree, Genesis made the most intelligent use
of the technology) but your example, "Mama", was actually programmed by Mike
Daniel.
timothy harrington (timharrington12.gmail.com) (07/13/18)
Spot on with your observation of Genesis' "That's All' sounding "The Milk of Human Kindness". In 1983 I was in college and and was just getting into PH. The first time we heard the Genesis song my buddy and I both thought it sounded like TMOHK. I think its the resigned melancholy and similar vocal melody with the piano accompaniment resulting in the same effect.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
In a lot of ways, this is something of a forgotten album. To far too many people, this album is That's All and some other stuff. It's a shame, because That's All is probably the fifth or sixth best track on Genesis, which is an indication of how good this album really is. Following in the footsteps of the previous two albums, this one perfectly melds the good parts of both to form a cohesive whole that can be argued as the group's pop peak.
There's really only one track that I don't care for, and that's the adult contemporary hit Taking It All Too Hard. The group has done and would do better soft rock (shudders) tracks than this. It's Gonna Get Better isn't bad, but it's not quite on par with the rest.
The rest, however, more or less rocks. It helps that the opener is the peak of Collins-Era Genesis. Mama is such an intriguing and dark track even superficially, but when you look at all the elements, you see the genius behind it. The slow build, the interesting and scintillating drum machine, the excellent instrumental choices, and an absurdly good vocal performance by Collins combine to form an absolute classic. And the rest is great. That's All is legitimately good pop, Home By The Sea/Second Home By The Sea provide a somewhat progressive element and work quite well, Just A Job To Do is a lot of fun to listen to, and Silver Rainbow might be the best overlooked gem in the Genesis library. Hell, I can even give a pass to the absolutely-not-ok-by-2018-standards Illegal Alien due to it, again, being fun to listen to despite its tastelessness.
Best song: Land of Confusion (as much as it kills me to admit it)
I originally rated this album lower, and while my overall attitude towards the album in terms of liking/disliking it hasn't
changed tremendously, I feel my original review missed some of the finer points of the album (and yes, I do think such
things exist here). Hence, I've rewritten it, so keep that in mind when considering the reader comments.
Invisible Touch is the most popular album the band ever did, at least if both album and singles chart positions are to be
considered, but it's also a central lightning rod for people who hate this particular era of the band. IT came out the year
after Collins made No Jacket Required (a winner of the Album of the Year Grammy), and it's hard to deny that this gave the band an impetus to let Phil's "non-Genesis" creative approach have a greater influence than it had before. I mean, the last
three albums had undoubtedly been "pop" albums, but I'd be hardpressed to buy into the arguments put forth by many that
Genesis had somehow become Phil's side-project. I just can't stress enough that those albums were just way too weird in too
many ways to qualify as the same kind of (painfully) straightforward music Phil was making on his own, and they had (I
insist) a strangely classy sheen in the production that served them well. On this album, though, the production bears a lot
of the characteristics that Genesis had not yet had, but that had become trademarks of Phil's solo style and of production
work that he'd done in other circumstances. In particular, no matter how many times I listen to this album, I can't help but
think that the drums sound absolutely awful here, whereas on Abacab and Genesis they'd often sounded pretty great. I'm not really fond of how the other instruments sound either; there's a definite tacky, cheesy gloss on all of the instruments that make them jump out, yes, but not in a way that I want instruments to jump out. If 80's sounds and textures don't bother you
in the slightest, then you'll probably be happy with how things turned out; me, I've got kind of an allergic reaction to the
way this album turned out on the whole.
And yet, underneath all of the stuff that bothers me, this is still, for the most part, a full-fledged Genesis album, and
not a glorified Phil Collins album. There are still bizarre (maybe not by traditional prog standards, but certainly by the
standards of "mainstream" pop) extended keyboard-centered instrumental breaks, driving some of the song-lengths far past the
bounds of a regular pop albums. There are still Rutherford-penned pop songs with decent guitar presence, and some
unconventional lyric topics, and there's even a full-fledged instrumental at the end! Yes, this album has more of Phil's
fingerprints on it than previous ones had had, but this was still just as much Tony and Mike's band as anybody's. Granted,
that also means they should get about as much blame for the album's failings as does Phil, but acknowledging their presence
helps make it easier to avoid getting blinded by those failings.
And, you know, the songs are far from universally sucking. The only track on here that clearly belongs more on a Phil solo
album than on a proper Genesis album is the ballad In Too Deep. It's just way too saccharine for my tastes, and moments like
that sickly-sweet falsetto Phil does when he sings the "crying at the top of my lungs" line are just too much for any non-Phil-lover (that I know) to bear. Yes, I know that it (like pretty much all the singles here) was a huge hit, but it
definitely was targetted more for fans of Phil than fans of Genesis.
The other song on this album that I seriously dislike is the opening title track, yet there's a major difference between
this song and In Too Deep: for all of its flaws, it's still clearly more of a Genesis song than a transplant from a Phil
solo album, if only because it originated from Phil improvising lyrics over an early version of the second half of Domino
(discussed more later). Plus, it's playfully up-tempo, has an okayish melody, has a light-but-decent guitar presence, and
has very active work from Tony. Unfortunately, these positive elements are largely cancelled out, thanks to the song
featuring one of the most awkwardly sung and written choruses (come on, do you really think that "She seems to have an in-vees-eee-bul
touch" is on par with the typical pop song Phil had done in the band before?) I've ever heard in a hugely popular song. The
song also has a lot of the production, um, tendencies that I mentioned previously, but as much as I could forgive a lot of
the other material of these flaws, the weaknesses in the song make it so I can't here.
That leaves six tracks, which are all flawed but which are all basically good. Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, of course,
shouldn't actually be a nine minute song: it's basically a five minute song, stretched out in a clear attempt to keep one
foot in the band's past. Still, the percussion programming is decently clever, the keyboards do a good job of building and
releasing tension when necessary, and the vocal melodies are memorable without being cheezy. Plus, as tacked on as I think
the lengthy instrumental passage might be in principal, I enjoy it when it's on, and I never feel like I've had my time
wasted or anything like that.
Land of Confusion is even better, though, as much as I hate to say it. The song has a lot of things going against it in
terms of good taste: the overwhlemingly 80's nature of the drum track, the corny (while taking on an "epic" vibe in places)
synths, the ridiculous lines about "my generation will put it right" that evoke images of The Walker Brigade from Saturday
Night Live. And yet, I can't stop liking the song. The melody is incredible, creating an urgent feel in the verses while the
intense synthesized bass drum pummels along underneath, and the pseduo-universalistic synths work better for me than reason says they should. Plus, I'd be hardpressed to name an 80's Genesis song I'd rather do in karaoke, were the opportunity to
come up.
Of the four remaining tracks, I actually held a dislike for two of them at first, but not anymore. It's tempting to lump
Throwing it All Away in with In Too Deep, but that's a mistake; Throwing it All Away is much more Rutherford than Collins,
and it stands up to any straight-forward pop ballads that he wrote before (excepting Ripples, which is clearly in a separate
class all together). Unlike In Too Deep, there's no glop whatosever in the song (unless you count anything Phil sung during
this era as gloppy, which you shouldn't), and the hooks don't come across as tacky at all. The other song I disliked before
but could never bash now is Anything She Does, kind of the band's answer to Pictures of Lily. It's a bit chaotic and hurried
in the arrangement, which took me some time to get used to, but there's something strangely addicting about it and the way
Phil sings the line, "I won't ever, no I'll never get to know her." It's a minor track, but definitely not a bad one.
The remaining tracks, then, largely destroy the idea of considering this album just another 80's pop album. The album's
centerpiece is the ten-minute Domino, basically two pop songs duct-taped together and featuring Phil singing Tony's brand of
prog lyrics. The lyrics, of course, are kind of silly (and supposedly, Phil disliked singing them, to the point that there
were later quotes hinting that part of the reason he quit the band later was because he was tired of singing this song
live), but they're silly in an addictive, non-preachy sort of way. Plus, while there are some pretty ridiculous moments in
the arrangements (especially in the keyboards), they're ridiculous in a way that's grown on me rather than off me over the
years. And, of course, the melodies are mostly very good, especially in the chorus of the "Glow of the Night" and in the
"But you gotta go domino" groove in the second half. And finally, the album ends with The Brazilian, a fine instrumental. It
has a good set of riffs for Tony's keyboards, and the percussion underneath is very interesting. Even Mike's generic mid-80's guitar soloing works very well in this piece!
So what kind of grade should I give this album? At a glance, it seems like, if I like six of the eight songs, I should
probably be looking at a 9 or so, and at first I'm tempted to raise the grade that high. But then I remember that I
really don't like the remaining two tracks. And then I remember that the arrangements and production irritate me throughout,
even in the moments and tracks that I basically like. So in the end, a high 7, bordering on an 8, is about the best I can
do. Still, compared to how I used to view this album, and how bad it could have theoretically been, that's not bad at all.
stray_toasters.juno.com
The first album I ever owned, and yes, it was because I heard the title
track on the radio. Thank CDNow I found that "Greatest" import
compilation, or I would never have discovered their prog period on my
own. I can understand your dislike for it. Sometimes I feel it's at
least a good album, but sometimes it does sound very cheesy. I'll tell
you what though, if "Throwing it all away" sounds destined for a Collins
solo album, it's gonna be the highlight on there. I think the melody and
chorus is superb. But yeah, "In Too Deep" is a cheese-filled bleak
pop-ballade, and made "Hold on my heart" redundant. "Anything She Does"
and the title track may lack a backbone, but they're still very driving.
The rest of it you said well enough.
By the way, I don't know if you heard the b-sides from this album or not,
but I got 'em thanks to good ol' napster. "I'd Rather Be You" is in a
similar vein to "Anything She Does" and the title track, but the melody
is better and the tone's not as cheesy. I didn't like "Feeding the Fire"
at first listen, but it kinda grew on me with its tone, even if the
melody's not that strong. Then there's "Do the Neurotic", which may be
the best of the recording era. It's more guitar-heavy than synth-heavy,
the tone is very tasteful, and it's well-written.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (8/15/01)
I don't think they sold out one bit. I think this album is their pop-rock
masterpiece, and I think to say it's a sell out is complete rotten poop.
Compare this with what's being put on the radio now, and how abominably
obvious the degree to which bands like Sugar Ray and Creed are selling out,
and it's clear that Invisible Touch, even though it is some of the catchiest
music from the 80's, is still some very intelligent and intriguing music.
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
The question is not whether it’s a disappointing album, but rather whose
fault it is. (And you know that when you go into a review straight off by
assigning blame things have gotten pretty dire.) I’d let Phil off the hook,
were it not for the fact that “In Too Deep” is a tasteless disgrace coming
from a band which used to pull off pop balladry with gusto. But much of
what irks me about Invisible Touch, like the title track itself, isn’t his
fault. (For example, that was largely a Mike Rutherford idea, and it’s tied
to such a such a facile hook and is arranged using such annoying Banksynths
that it drowns in its own sugar.) And a word of advocacy for “Throwing It
All Away” – the lyrics are serviceable love cliches, yes, but don’t let that
obscure what is really a gorgeous and subtle arrangement of an elegant riff,
supported by a graceful melody. There’s a wide world of difference between
“Throwing It All Away” and “In Too Deep,” as a back-to-back listen makes
clear. As the guy above me said, if Collins’ albums were ACTUALLY populated
with ballads like that, then I’d happily listen to them.
But everything else on the album just seems a bit too much like
Genesis-warmed-over, like good milk gone slightly sour. The obligatory prog
throwback is certainly stocked with a few good musical ideas, but I just
can’t in good conscience embrace any song with the line “take a look at the
beautiful river of blood.” Dammit, Tony! He actually managed to write good
lyrics on the last album, clever little twisted sketches which managed to
achieve a schlocky sort of dignity precisely because they didn’t seem to be
trying so hard...and now it’s back to the same old portentous universalist
bullshit.
(An aside: “Anything She Does” reminds me of a “No Jacket Required” outtake,
a slander so poisonous and damning that it would leave me open to libel
charges were it not true.)
To be fair, there are some good moments on Invisible Touch, like “Tonight,
Tonight, Tonight” and “Land Of Confusion,” two good pop songs which are the
victim of unfortunate production choices (the former is needlessly – though
not fatally – extended, and the latter could really stand to have better
keyboards and a less aggravating synth-drum pattern), and “Throwing It All
Away.” But I’m left with the depressing feeling that on Invisible Touch
Genesis has finally fallen victim to trends which it used to make a career
out of being ahead of. What made this band so appealing to me is that they
always seemed to be able to ride on the crest of whatever musical wave
loomed large at the time, steering their own way through the Seventies and
early Eighties by refracting the sounds of the day through the prism of
their earlier experience. But in 1986 it seems like they finally got lost
in the flood. Ah well. 5/10.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
I used to hate this album, and wouldn't buy it for years on the strength
of the fact I hated the title track so much. When I did buy it it turned
out to be the proverbial Curate's egg - good in parts. There are some
outstanding songs - "The Brazilian", "Tonight Tonight Tonight" and
"Domino" would fall into this category - coupled with some tripe -
"Invisible Touch", "In Too Deep". The other songs are good without being
great. 6 out of 10.
FilmFreak1982.aol.com (3/25/03)
>>As much as I and many others may despise this album<<
Certainly you can't be talking about me in those many others: I actually LOVE
this album!
>>albeit smothered in cheezy 80's production and arrangements<<
Sorry, wrong. You mean "productions and arrangements that [you] hate." There
was nothing cheezy about 80's music. As a matter of fact, it's the music I
grew up with as a child; I love it still.
>>the songs are (a) incredibly generic and (b) void of any depth whatsoever. <<
That's YOUR misfortune, not the band's. They put out material for people that
would like it. You happen to hate it. I love it. No other ways about it.
>>each with a sappiness level that becomes unbearable at times <<
Sorry to hear that you're so cold-hearted and closed-minded.
>>can you really tolerate that sickly sweet falsetto Phil uses at times in In
Too Deep? <<
You want to know the truth? YES I CAN.
>>There is NO serious content to these numbers.<<
Um, yes there is. You've missed the point. "Invisible Touch" is one of my
favorites because it is catchy, upbeat, and danceable. If you expect more from
pop music, the misfortune is yours, no one elses.
>>the overwhelmingly 80's nature of the drum track, the corny synths<<
Hey, if you don't like it, don't listen to it. Yet you say you do like it.
Come on, admit it; it's catchy and upbeat.
>>, there's no guarantee you'll like this one. Proceed with caution<<
Speak for yourself, not for others. Point is, you cannot judge the tastes of
others.
(author's note): My emailed response to FilmFreak (I can do this because I hold the copyrights to my own writing, yup - also, a couple of spelling mistakes I made have been fixed, as it's annoying to try and keep up when typing on a lagging ssh connection):
Just a couple of things:
"Um, yes there is. You've missed the point. "Invisible Touch" is one of
my favorites because it is catchy, upbeat, and danceable. If you expect
more from pop music, the misfortune is yours, no one elses."
Yes, I do expect more from pop music. I expect more because so much pop
music OFFERS more. Cripes, much of the pop music on the three Genesis
albums previous to IT offered WAY more than most of what is found on IT.
Turn it On Again, Abacab, Duchess, Keep it Dark ... I could listen to
those things all day.
Furthermore, I do not consider much of what is on IT to be catchy.
Catchiness implies that the song does something unusual to "catch" the
listener - when something is memorable for reasons that fall under the
realm of "predictability," that is a MINUS against it, not a positive.
Finally, "upbeat" and "dancable" are two of the lamest standards of
quality for pop music imaginable. Virtually ALL pop music is dancable in
some way, and at least half of it is upbeat (whereas about the other half
is downbeat) - if dancable and upbeat were adequate measurements of
quality, then 99.99% of all pop music would fall under the category of
"good." And I'm sorry, but if something like In Too Deep is _good_, then
something that I would be happy to call good (like, say, Mama or That's
All or Silver Rainbow from Genesis' self-titled album) is cheapened by the
use of the same description used for that piece of swill.
By the way, I said "there's no guarantee" you'll like it, not that "you
won't like it." If you cannot discern between a statement of order
absolute and one of order probable, or discern between a well-delineated
opinion and an attempted declaration of fact, chances are you shouldn't
be reading pages like mine.
Charlie Goodrich (mikeandmalcolm.comcast.net) (06/18/06)
I don't understand what is so bad about 80s arrangments or sounds. They are
fun and catchy. Every decade had shallow music but The Invisible Touch is a
great album. It's a fun album that is easy to listen to. Not all music needs
to be complex or deep to be enjoyed. Just sit back and let your ears take in
the Genesis goodness. Give it a try at least and see what happens.
Trfesok.aol.com (05/13/13)
A friend of mine once referred to this album as a Phil Collins/Mike and the Mechanics collaboration. While I wouldn't go quite that
far, it's clear that the balance has further shifted away from Tony. He clearly dominates "Domino", "The Brazilian", and he
(surprisingly) also wrote the lyrics to "Anything She Does" (sort of belying Jeff''s complaints that it sounds like something from
NJR). But Mike and the Mechanics' first album, as well as NJR, had big hits, so it's clear that Phil and Mike would have a lot more
say.
I also like this album a bit more than I used to. Besides the three mentioned above, this is one more song that, I think, surpasses
anything on the previous album. "Land of Confusion" does have some power in the lyrics, the music (even if they repeat the bass
synth trick from Collins' "Sussusdio") and Phil's vocal delivery. These four songs do overcome the problems with the hideous
production.
As you mentioned, typical mid-80's production wrecks this album in big ways. After achieving some nice variety in his keyboard
sounds after ATTWT, Tony's Yamaha synth sounds are laid on too thickly here, suffocating the songs. The one exception is his watery
synth-piano on "In Too Deep", but that is such a sappy disaster of a song (Collins' lyrics) that it doesn't matter. The other big
problems is the overuse of drum machines. On the previous three studio albums, they were used to add color to real drums. Here,
they tend to overpower Collins' actual playing, cluttering up "TTT" and the title track, in particular. As for the former, I had
forgotten that "Fading Lights" wasn't the first time they tried too fool their old prog fans by extending a monotonous pop song to
unreasonable length (and the 12" remix is three minutes longer??. What, that now makes it danceable?). Finally, I just cannot
forgive "Throwing It All Away" for its hideous lyrics. "Our love was meant to be?" Come on! They didn't have such a lazy teenage
cliche on their FIRST album!
I saw the band the second time on this tour, where the songs dominated the setlist (all but "Anything She Does", where we got to
see a video starring Benny Hill (!) instead. Mike said it was too difficult to play live -- I guess you have a point about the
tempo). I was on the opposite side of the stadium from the band, and I really felt like they were just going through the motions. I
said I would never see them again unless they made some big changes. I never did. Hmm.. maybe I would have liked the CAS tour...
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
Ok, controversial opinion time. I actually like this album. Not in a Patrick Bateman American Psycho kind of way, but more than a little. Despite my overwhelming love for progressive rock, there is something very satisfying about blatant (and occasionally dumb) pop music to me.
Really the only two tracks that I'd lump into a somewhat negative category are Anything She Does and Throwing It All Away. The rest are all at least decent, and some are even good-to-great. I'm not overly bothered by the awkward phrasing on the title track, and it helps that the rest is fun sounding. Tonight x3 probably doesn't need to be 8 minutes, but it's certainly decent. Land of Confusion is definitely the best of the bunch. In Too Deep, while very "Collins" is actually a pretty decent love song in my eyes. Domino is a very close second in terms of best tracks, particularly for it's second half. And The Brazilian is pretty interesting, and even a little too short.
Best song: I Can't Dance
Over the years, I've observed that many people (especially Gabriel-era fans who speak dismissively of the Collins "sellout" era) tend to lump this album in together with its predecessor, as if they were basically the same album or two sides of the same coin. Years of listening to the Collins era of Genesis, though, has led me to believe that this is a major mistake, and
while I'm nowhere near a huge fan of IT, I still consider it a far better album than this one could ever be. That one had
some flaws, yes, but nothing as deep and as fundamental as the flaws that affect this album.
The single biggest problem with this album was the fact that it took five years for the band to come out with a followup to
IT. This was a problem for three major (two related) reasons. The first is that, in those five years, it became painfully
obvious that Phil Collins needed Genesis a whole lot less than Genesis needed Phil Collins. After achieving so much
commercial success in his solo career, Phil had less of a reason than ever to go back into the studio as just one of the
guys, with his ideas receiving equal weight with Mike's and Tony's. The only way that he could be lured back into the studio
for another Genesis album was if his level of control was at least somewhat the same as what he could expect in making one
of his own albums. The result, then, is that this album comes painfully close in many places to sounding like a Phil Collins
solo album, with Mike and Tony as just featured musicians. There are exceptions to this, but they're just that: exceptions.
Tony's influence is clearly muted a lot, and his synthesizers are mostly undistinctive (even when he was annoying in the
past, you could still count on him to stand out!), while Mike seems like he could have been swapped out for just about
anybody.
The second problem came from the five year gap itself. The band had regularly released albums every year or every other year
since the early 70's, and even when the band took a break between Genesis and IT, the gap was only three years. One of the
effects of creating new music on a regular basis was that the band had created a clear narrative for its historical
development (one of the most interesting narratives in rock music history, I would argue), and there was a clear sense of
momentum in its development. For better and worse, IT was a logical successor to Genesis, as Genesis was a logical sucessor
to Abacab, as Abacab was a ... sorta logical successor to Duke, and so on. In taking so much time off, though, the band lost
its creative momentum and broke the narrative thread: I really have a lot of trouble seeing how the tracks on IT, apart from
In Too Deep, predict this album in any way. Instead, the band had to pretty much start from scratch, and the raw materials
they used for their reboot were not ideal.
The third problem came from the deterioration of Phil's voice. I've always preferred Peter's singing to Phil's, but I also
think that, starting in about 1980 (not much before then: I've heard a bootleg from the '78 tour and Phil's singing was
still kinda non-descript), Phil became a pretty strong singer for the band (whenever he avoided excessive sap, of course).
He figured out how to bring some serious power into his singing, as well as a neat rasp/roar in the higher registers that
made him really stand out. Plus, as mentioned in the Genesis review, he'd become an ace at singing pissed off love songs.
Somewhere between IT and WCD, though, Phil's voice settled into its familiar 90's mode: extremely syruppy, and with a thin piercing quality that would jut into the pain regions of my brain. There are some elements of his previous best work, but they're few and far between. Maybe it was just him getting older (he turned 40 in this period!), but whatever it was, his
vocal prime was gone.
So let's look at the songs, then. Three of the first four songs, three of the big hit singles from the album, are quite
strong, and get the album off to a deceptive start. No Son of Mine is overlong, and it takes a little bit of time to get to
the chorus (the best part of the song), but the lyrics are pretty moving, and overall the song is a good one. Even better is
Jesus He Knows Me, probably the only track on here that feels like a successor to the best IT material: its attack on
televangelism is somewhat trite lyrically, but the lyrics are still fun, and it's a solid up-tempo pop song with a great
chorus. The third song in the list is the best known of the album, and a lot of fans hate it, but I for one enjoy the living
daylights out of I Can't Dance. It's just a really great pop song, from the grumbly guitar riff to the silly lyrics to the
really enjoyable chorus that features a throwback to Phil's really cool high-pitched rasp. It has nothing to do with
anything Genesis had done to that point, and it's a ridiculous way to get introduced to the band (I have to confess this was
my introduction; when I was on the cross-country team in 7th grade, the team's star runner would regularly be heard singing
it in practice), but I enjoy well-written pop songs as much as anybody does.
Sandwiched between Jesus He Knows Me and I Can't Dance, though, is a track that serves as an ill harbinger of the rest of
the album to come. See, even though the style of the music was closer to solo Phil than to Genesis, the band clearly wanted
the album to have some appeal to older fans. As on previous albums, this meant making quite a few of the songs pretty long,
with a couple functioning as full-fledged "epics." Driving the Last Spike, at ten minutes in length, was apparently supposed
to serve somewhat the same function on this album that Tonight x3 served on IT (a standard pop song stretched into pseudo-
prog territory through the length), but this track doesn't hold a candle to that one. This track is basically a 3-minute
standard Phil Collins song, with Phil singing about a "serious" topic (about people who worked on railroads in the western
United States in the 19th century), stretched into ten minutes, and I find the effect amazingly bad. The arrangements are
incredibly monotonous, full of standard heavenly guitars and moody synths (except for what sounds like an organ every so
often), and except for when Phil sings the line, "As they waved goodbye to their fathers," I don't feel any resonance
whatsoever from the singing. I could compare this song in quality to One for the Vine, but frankly I'd much rather listen to
that one than to this. For all of the boredom coming out of the song, it at least had a few distinct parts, some clear
variation in the keyboards used (both synths and piano), and most importantly a really creative, powerful Hackett solo stuck
into the last minute. It's also definitely much worse than Tonight x3: that track had some clear conflict and tension (in a
good way) in the interaction of the ideas from the band members, whereas this track overly feels like Phil domination with
some bones thrown to the others.
Following I Can't Dance, we then hit a stretch that is easily the most disappointing seven song stretch in the entire (pre-CAS)
Genesis catalogue. It is here that the Collins influence becomes utterly overpowering, and anybody with the least bit of
allergy to such things should stay away from here. Three of the tracks could easily be swapped out for pretty much any
generic Collins ballad: Never a Time is a pleasant enough throwaway, but Hold On My Heart is enough of an argument on its
own for the destruction of every Adult Contemporary album ever made, and Since I Lost You is just tacky tacky tacky. Tell Me
Why and Way of the World are slightly up-tempo, which helps, but short on strong hooks, and both of them go on awfully long
given how little happens in them of note. Living Forever is another song with "meh" hooks, but the band throws a bone to
fans of the band's longer instrumental bits, so that might please some (not me, though). Dreaming While You Sleep actually
has a good amount going for it, from an intriguing lyrical topic (somebody killing a girl in a hit-and-run, getting away
with it, and having to live with the guilt for the rest of his life) to some interesting instrumental interplay, to some
actual strong variation in the melodies; it's too bad that it in no way deserves to last seven minutes. Still, I like the
song more than not, and it's basically a keeper.
The album then ends with a track that's clearly more influenced by Banks than Collins. Fading Lights is clearly supposed to
serve as the album's version of Domino or Home by the Sea, as it's ten minutes long, features a lengthy instrumental
passage, and features Collins singing lyrics that clearly came from somebody other than himself. Unfortunately, this comes
nowhere close to meeting the standards of those two songs. The song begins and ends with the "regular" song, but this main
song is just as generic Adult Contemporary in the melody as anything else on the album, and the lyrics are just Banks
lamenting about getting old. And the instrumental passage, ugh: the band was clearly going for somewhat of a "majestic" vibe
here, but keeping the mid-section at a constant mid-tempo pace while Banks plays various semi-inspired keyboard lines for five
minutes was about the least inspired idea the band ever had for an instrumental passage. At least Domino had the good sense
to have different songs within the suite, and to speed up the song in the second half: this is just boring through and
through.
So all in all, this is just a pretty sad end to the Collins era of Genesis. I like some of the songs on here, and part of me
wants to boost the rating a bit, but there's also a lot of REALLY BAD material here. If you really, really like the Collins
era, you may like this, but even that's no guarantee. Get this if you can find it for a dollar (for the good hits, plus
maybe Dreaming While You Sleep), but don't spend more than that.
Byron Dahms (orderdesk.centralreprographics.com)
My favorite song here is easy- Driving the last Spike.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
No, must disagree with you here. Sure it's no classic, but I think it is
a better album than Invisible Touch. I love "Fading Lights". I'll say
some good things about it - I think the lyrics are quite nice, evoking a
longing for thing past (their heyday perhaps?), The instrumental in the
middle is one of the few places where Tony gets to play a starring role,
I think the track works - certainly better than "Driving The Last Spike",
although I don't consider that song as diabolical as you do. Yes, some of
the ballads blow ("Hold On My Heart" is the worst offender) but they are
more than offset by strong songs like "No Son Of Mine", "Dreaming While
You Sleep" and "Living Forever". 7.5 out of 10.
Trfesok.aol.com (07/15/06)
Yes, I really want to tell you that "Driving the Last Spike" is a
good song! Seriously, I think that it's one of the best late period
Genesis songs. Granted, it has none of the interesting musical twists
and turns of classic Genesis. But the melodies of the different
sections are at least catchy, Collins' vocal is very emotional, and
the lyrics (about the men who constructed the railroads) are
excellent.
However, that's about the only place where we disagree here. It's
pretty clear that by now Genesis was running out of ideas. They are
beginning to repeat themselves big time. "Dreaming While You Sleep"
is another attempt to capture the "Mama"/"In the Air Tonight" "scary"
vibe, but should have been titled "Putting You to Sleep." "No Son of
Mine" sounds like an outtake, lyrically, from Mike's Living Years
(and what's with that synth that sounds like an elephant call?);
"Tell Me Why" revisits Phil's "Another Day in Paradise". I don't
think that the ballads are quite as bad as "In Too Deep," but that's
just a matter of degree. As for "Fading Lights," yes, the
extended running length and keyboard solos do not prog make -- it's
just a really long, dull AC ballad. I would bet those depressing,
post apocalyptic lyrics come from Tony, and the track really
foreshadows the endless dullness of the next studio album.
In the couple of instances when the band tries to stretch itself,
they sound ridiculous. "Jesus, He Knows Me," is that supposed to be
"hard hitting" social commentary? Phil, thanks for the big expose on
teleevangelists that rip off people! I didn't know that! It might
have been more compelling if you had come up with music that didn't
sound like a No Jacket Required reject. As for the title song, Phil
and Mike were evidently trying to get "down and dirty", which is the
last thing that Genesis should try and be. Really annoying. And the
two rejects on the Archive were not better. "On the Shoreline" is
another napfest, and "Hearts on Fire" sounds like the bad Steve
Winwood song of the same name.
People said that Genesis should have broken up after this, but this
makes it clear that it wouldn't have been premature if they stopped
before they got here.
Kasper Michelsen (kaspergm.hotmail.com) (08/06/06)
I don't know if you ever work in this site anymore, but I feel I have
to send you some comments. First of all, I find it kind of amusing
that two fans of the same group can have so different oppinions, but
then again, it probably isn't that surprising. As you say, your first
album was Selling England By The Pound, and you worked your way from
there - and, as you say, you adore Gabriel as a vocalist without
peers. My first Genesis album was We Can't Dance, which still remains
a favorite of mine (see below), and even though I can see the
strength in Gabriel's voice, and I even occasionally think him a
capable and sufficient vocalist (The Musical Box, Dancing With The
Moonlit Knight, Fly On A Windscreen, The Chamber Of 32 Doors) there
is little doubt where my heart lies. I don't say this to provoke you,
actually, I think the two of us could have made a very interesting
Genesis site, because about anything you say is equal to my oppinion
with the opposite sign (of course, that's not entirely true, but you
get my drift, I suppose).
I have to leave some words for We Can't Dance. It's fairly obvious
why you don't like this particular album, it's a pop album, and it
has a large influence of Collins. It's also very clear why I love the
album - for the very same reasons. However, just writing the album
off as pop doesn't give the album credit, because it's not only good
pop music, it's actually most excellent pop music. You might resent
that the band no longer produced progressive rock, and that's ok - I
don't say you have to like it - but considering that they probably
entered the studio with the aim to make a pop album and not a prog
album, and what they made was an excellent pop album, they faired
well. Furthermore, the album has a fine musical standard, with a
blend of uptempo radio-friendly songs (I Can't Dance, Jesus He Knows
Me, Living Forever), ballads (Never A Time, Since I Lost You, No Son
Of Mine) and what you might call progressive pop-songs (Fading
Lights, Dreaming While You Sleep, Driving The Last Spike). The album
flows well and has a coherent feel in song theme and sound, and the
production is flawless (notice: This is probably the one and only
Genesis album (ever!) where the studio versions of the songs were
actually better than the live versions!). For all these reasons, I
think WCD was a great (pop) album!
I also have to add, that my favourite three Genesis albums would have
to be (in random order) Selling England By The Pound, Duke and We
Can't Dance. These albums are obviously extremely different from each
other, and is in no way comparable. Each has qualities that make it
stand out to the others, and each has weaknesses. Thus, Selling
England arguably holds the best music the band ever made - but also
suffers a lot from it's production - for me, the album versions of I
Know What I Like, Firth Of Fifth and Cinema Show are far inferior to
subsequent live recordings. We Can't Dance may not hold as impressive
music as Selling England, but on the other hand has high quality from
start to end and hasn't been rendered obsolete by subsequent
development of the songs. The albums cannot be compared, but I don't
think the treatment you give We Can't Dance gives a fair impression
of that album's content.
"matt faris" (7headedchicken.gmail.com) (09/13/10)
If I were the producer, I would have cut the track listing to one vinyl disc
as such: Side One - "No Son of Mine", "Jesus He Knows Me", "Never A Time",
"Dreaming While You Sleep", and "Tell Me Why." Side Two - "Living Forever",
"Hold On My Heart", "Way Of the World", and "Fading Lights." I then would
have taken a photo of the band standing in quicksand and called the album *We
Can't Sink*. But that's just me. I actually think that "Never a Time" is
one of their best ballads from this time, (it's no "One Day" or "Your Own
Special Way", though) and I love the guitar fills! Always thought "Living
Forever" is a great song with great lyrics, and you can cut and paste your
review of "Second Home By the Sea" to mine of "Fading Lights." I'm with the
general consensus that "No Son of Mine" is very moving, and "Jesus He Knows
Me" is good music, lyrics OK, but not as humorous as intended. "Driving the
Last Spike" is a good song, but would have sounded a lot better if it didn't
drag so much and if Mike's guitar was in tune! It almost sounds like the
band was tired or they just didn't care on some of these tracks. The guitar
on "Dreaming.." is very good and atmospheric, though. And lastly, I can't
stand "I Can't Dance." I do however enjoy the version that was recorded in
the 23rd dimension featuring the guitarist from ZZ Top with Bon Scott on
vocals. A must hear.
Edward J Gorski (egorski13.mail.bw.edu) (07/13/18)
If they had known when to stop with this album, it might've been better. This album is 70+ minutes long, and 40-45 minutes of it suck. It bums me out to think that way but....Driving The Last Spike, Never A Time, Tell Me Why, Living Forever, Way Of The World, Since I Lost You, and Fading Lights are just not to the standard I would expect from this group.
And the rest aren't all amazing in a way that at all counterbalances these many (many) weaknesses. Hold On My Heart and, to a lesser extent Dreaming While You Sleep, aren't exactly five-star classics. No Son of Mine also suffers from being about two minutes too long. The remaining two tracks though are a relative improvement. I Can't Dance is probably the best of the pack, and Jesus He Knows Me is a lot of fun too.
Best song: Mama
Wholely unnecessary. The idea here is that somebody had the bright idea of, instead of releasing a double album from the WCD tour, releasing two albums. One, The Shorts, comprises of the shorter songs from the last three albums, while The Longs focuses on the longer songs of these albums, as well as including a medley of various older stuff.
Anyway, there's really not much to say about this album. If you look at the track listing, you can basically predict exactly how the album sounds. Everything is impeccably played, sure, but the songs are basically done by the book, and the degree to which you enjoy the album is basically correlated to how much you enjoyed the corresponding studio versions of these songs. There are changes here and there, like Tonight Tonight Tonight getting drastically cut, or I Can't Dance receiving an extended coda, but the rest basically has the songs done note-for-note-for-note. With good stuff like Mama or Land of Confusion, this is fine, but for crap like In Too Deep or Hold On My Heart (oy, what a HORRID choice), this is painful. Plus, the album really drives home to me the notion that Phil's voice had gotten worse by this time.
It goes without saying that, if you already have IT and WCD, there's NO reason to get this. On the other hand, if you want a rough compilation of those two albums, this wouldn't kill you, I guess. Just be sure to get Genesis too ...
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
OK, maybe it IS unnecessary, but I kinda like these two albums. The video
is better though. 6 out of 10.
"Ricky Flahive" (therickyman.hotmail.com) (08/13/09)
This album isn't quite as terrible as everyone says it is. The crappy songs like In
Too Deep and Invisible Touch are needlessly extended, and Tonight Tonight Tonight is
cut down drastically and the great keyboard tone sounds horribly cheezy here.
However Jesus He Knows Me is FANTASTIC live. And the added rockiness greatly
improves No Son of Mine as well.
So anyway not a must buy at all, but some of thses songs sound great live. 7 (10)
Best song: I Dunno, Let's Say Domino
As mentioned above, this is part two of the WCD tour recording, focusing on the old prog material as well as the extended pieces on the albums since 3 Sides Live. If you don't care for stuff like Land of Confusion or I Can't Dance, you might think this album would be great, especially in comparison to its predecessor. After all, look at the song lengths, it must be better *sarcasm*!
Alas, this album sucks. First of all, I am not at ALL happy with the way The Old Medley turned out. I didn't enjoy the way Phil tackled these songs before on Seconds' Out, and I sure as heck don't hear any improvement. He's still making the same mistakes - singing Lamb like a normal pop song, making the "brush back your hair" lines in the Musical Box segment sing-songey (dammit Phil! The main character is about to rape the girl! Don't sing that part like Mary Had a Friggin' Little Lamb!), destroying the atmosphere of I Know What I Like, etc. But even worse, the rest of the band doesn't really help matters much. The solo in this version of Firth of Fifth isn't as atrocious as I first considered it, as I'm now realizing that it preserves the essence of it decently, but I really feel kinda edgy when the guitarist goes into generic "heavenly" mode from time to time. Oh well - at least Dance on a Volcano is ok, and they even cram in some poppier stuff at the end (Your Own Special Way, Follow You Follow Me, Illegal Alien and even That's All make brief cameos). Overall, though, the effect is miserable, even if they once again throw in the Stagnation quote at the end.
The album doesn't improve tremendously from there, alas. On the plus side, Home By the Sea/Second Home by the Sea and Domino are done faithfully, and for whatever reason the instrumentation of this runthrough of Domino doesn't strike me as as cheezy as before. In other words, I basically enjoy the hell out of these two suites, and they raise the rating substantially. On the down side, though, we have Driving the Last Spike and Fading Lights. Did they get better in a live setting? HELL NO!!
The last track isn't that great either. It's a drum duet, which on the one hand means that Phil is behind the set once more, and on the other means that it's basically a glorified drum solo. It's ok for a track with nothing but drums, and it is a nice psychological effect to have Phil back where he belongs, but I'd rather here Phil playing in an actual song. Sigh. At least it's a slightly unpredictable addition to the track list.
Basically, this album is stupid. It may seem potentially attractive to the naked eye, but the ears confirm the idiocy of the eye in this case.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
The "Old Medly" is cheating, I would have much preferred the full
versions, but I'll take what I can get at this stage. "Domino" is
performed well. 6.5 out of 10.
Denise Fuller (gf22.cecomet.net) (9/30/03)
Hi John,
Just reading the reviews for the two Way We Walk Live albums and thought
I'd point a few things out. Mama, That's All and In Too Deep were in
fact recorded on the Invisible Touch tour in 86 and 87. Mama was played
for a short period at the beginning of the WCD tour, while In Too Deep
and That's All weren't (aside from the short snippet in the Old Medley).
Also, on volume two, Phil is on drums quite a bit. He's playing on Firth
Of Fifth, all of Fading Lights (the song was done by just the three of
them onstage, much like Cinema Show's instrumental ending back on the
Selling England tour), he's playing alone during Second Home By The Sea,
and of course with Chester during the drum duet. I think that's about
it.
Trfesok.aol.com (12/16/06)
It's totally a filler release, of course. I actually enjoy these
versions, in some ways, more than the studio versions. Except for
"Fading Lights", of course, which nothing can save. The "Banksynths"
that you and George detest so much seem to be pushed farther back in
the mix in favor of the guitars, so you should like these more, too.
"Second Home by the Sea" is actually easier to hear here than
to watch at a concert (I've done it twice - trust me on this one).
The medley is really annoying, though . I hate medleys - -they do
feel like a cheat, and the arrangements sound very skeletal when
compared to the glorious original versions. The only improvement is
that Phil's vocals are more audible than they were on the Seconds
Out. "Domino" and "Driving the Last Spike" (oh, you must think I'm
nuts) get my votes for top tune. It's an OK compilation if you don't
want the original studio albums, but that's all.
Best song: Ripples
Not as essential as the first archive, but much better than it could probably be. The biggest problem with this boxset is that, aside from its logical status as a "sequel" to the glorious first boxset, it doesn't have the greatest amount of justification for its existence. Nothing as "epochal" as, say, The Lamb came out during the Collins era, so there was no "need" for any of the band's live cuts as much as there was from that tour. Plus, as good as some of the outtakes here are, there's nothing quite on the level of Twilight Alehouse, though some might come close.
Still, the seeming superfluousness of the set as a whole doesn't take away from the fact that parts of it are VERY enjoyable, and lead to it getting quite a high grade. The second disc is particularly enjoyable in this regard, a collection of live tracks from all the various periods of the Collins era (there's also a couple more on the third disc). Of course, for the most part this material is much simpler than what we had during the Gabriel era, and as such there isn't the benefit of an extra dose of energy based on trying extra hard to keep up with the studio versions, but they're ok nonetheless. One of them, actually, is utterly SPECTACULAR - ho boy, was I right in suspecting that there was an utterly gorgeous creature lying beneath the occasionally tattered rags of arrangments of the studio version of Ripples. Collins' singing is even more moving than before, Banks seemingly sticks mostly to piano (keeping it relatively low in the mix), and the solo (which I thought was Hackett but actually isn't - the perils of listening to a boxset without the liner notes) ... oh man, I don't think the solo is that much different from what it was before, but the mood created here by it is indescribable, even in comparison to before. During the time of that solo, nothing else in the world exists - my whole universe is a slow, winding passage with a gloriously ringing guitar tone, and my basest reaction is to put it back on right away.
The others don't completely measure up. There's three ATTWT songs, which theoretically doesn't excite me, but they sound really good here. This is more surprising considering that I only liked one of the three songs originally (Burning Rope) - Deep in the Motherlode suddenly becomes catchy and even moving occasionally, and The Lady Lies suddenly sounds like something close to a classic (complete with a fantastic set of energetic guitar lines in the final push to the end). Elsewhere, the allocation of live tracks is fairly spread out over the different eras - Trick also gets Entangled (PRETTY), Wind gets Your Own Special Way (not bad), Duke gets Duke's Travels/End (which ANNIHILATES its studio counterpart), Abacab gets No Reply at All and Man on the Corner (decent, though not spectacular - it should be noted that the attempt at replicating the horns with guitar isn't very convincing), Genesis gets Illegal Alien and It's Gonna Get Better (both are decent enough here, though I would've REALLY liked Silver Rainbow instead of Gonna Get Better), IT gets The Brazilian (GOOD choice) and WCD gets Dreaming While You Sleep (ehn, not great, but could be worse). Basically, a good haul.
The rest of the material, however, is filled with studio rarities and dance mixes of various songs. The latter category doesn't please me very much - I actually more or less liked three of the four remixed songs originally (Invisible Touch, Tonight Tonight Tonight, Land of Confusion, I Can't Dance), but only the remix of ICD succesfully entertains me at all (though ironically, it entertains me a lot - it's amazing how involving cheeziness can be when it wants). The 80's corny production of the original IT tracks is magnified to an incredibly self-parodic degree (which I guess is the point of these things, but still), and I just can't listen to these for more than a bit at a time.
The rarities are dispensable in some cases, but there's some great material in here. On the Shoreline, a WCD outtake, is actually a very nice way to start the set. I get the feeling that the only reasons it was left off were (a) it's clearly designed to be the opening track of an album, and wasn't going to supplant No Son of Mine of its position and (b) it has some moments that were cannibalized into Driving the Last Spike. Still, it would have been one of the two or three best songs on that album had it been released, and the interaction of the guitars and keyboards make it sound more like a real Genesis song than much of what's on that album.
Actually, come to think of it, pretty much every era (defined by album) gives at least one or two great new tracks. From the Trick sessions comes It's Yourself, the first couple of minutes of which are a beautiful ballad that gets stuck in my head all the time, and the rest of which is a bunch of really lovely atmospherics that were later incorporated into the beginning of Los Endos. I actually keep meaning to figure out how to make a seamless splicing between this track and Los Endos; a version of Trick that would include It's Yourself flowing into Los Endos would be even stronger than the album that currently exists.
From Wind comes a track that I somehow missed when I first reviewed this set, but which has gone down as one of my favorite post-Gabriel tracks. Inside and Out is a GORGEOUS Rutherford-style ballad (of course, if it's not Rutherford and in fact I can't really tell who composed what, I'll be ready to just throw it in), with pretty singing and tasteful keys from Tony. Imagine something like Your Own Special Way with the compactness and good timing of Blood on the Rooftops (and an actually *gasp* ENERGETIC ending, with lots of great Hackett playing to counter Tony's great playing), and there you go. From the Three sessions comes The Day the Light Went Out, an amazingly catchy synth-based rocker with a great chorus hook and effectively frantic energy in the verses and martial rhythms in the breaks. Duke's main contribution here is Evidence of Autumn, which technically isn't new (it was one of the 3SL studio tracks: see that review for details on the track), but since it's not available on CD otherwise, it might as well be. Abacab, apart from the mild fun of Paperlate, contributes a really strange groove in Naminanu, and a really pretty instrumental in Submarine, which gives the impression of watching fishes and mermaids and other things flow by. Genesis doesn't really contribute anything new, with the exception of an early version of Mama. I used to hate this version, mainly because the HA-HA's turned more into heh-heh's, but I've come to enjoy it just as much as anything else on here. And even IT contributes a couple of gems, courtesy of Feeding the Fire and the seven-minute instrumental Do the Neurotic, which manages to be kinda "tough" sounding without crossing the line into stupid.
In the end, while some of the material ranges from kinda meh to mind-bogglingly stupid (e.g. the extended remixes of IT songs), there's a good amount of really solid material here. I originally would have given this an 8, but the high points have grown on me through the years to the point that boosting this up a bit seems like the best course of action. Don't buy it new, but definitely don't avoid it used either.
PS: Somebody actually made me a track the splices It's Yourself and Los Endos. Yes, it's as awesome as you'd imagine it, and yes, it makes A Trick of the Tail even better.
Jeff Blehar (dajesusofcool.hotmail.com) (1/16/02)
Well I make all these comments plugging the Archives and there you go
reviewing it before I can even submit my comments! Anyway, even though I
REALLY REALLY like this (moreso than any Collins-era Genesis album save
Trick and Abacab), I’d give it the same score you would, objectively. I
enjoy it immensely, but then again I gotta recognize that I’m quite a fan.
Anyway, what everyone agrees on are the live cuts. I’ll put my money down
now: this is the best live Genesis you can legally buy. Better than Genesis
Live (though that one’s close). Better than Seconds Out. And a HELL of a
lot better than Three Sides Live. As is probably clear, the choice of songs
was dictated by what was already available (up until the first Archives, the
only complete song to appeared twice on a live album was “Afterglow,” plus
some medleyed bits and pieces of other Gabriel-era tracks), and considering
they basically had late-period esoterica to work with, they did DAMN good.
So damn well, in fact, that I don’t understand how disc 2 of this boxed set
can be so vastly superior to all their other live LPs. Perhaps it’s the
variety: tracks mixed up from all the studio albums and the live tours
supporting them, many of historical value (like say that gorgeous
“Entangled” from the ’76 tour – I wish they’d give us more 1976 stuff,
though). Since I’ve already commented on many of these performances in my
other comments, I’ll note only that 1.) “Dreaming While You Sleep” proves
that no matter how good a band they were capable of being live, you can’t
burnish a turd; 2.) The guitarist on that performance of “Ripples” that you
and I are both so taken with (yeah, it’s probably the best track on the set)
is Daryl Stuermer. The performance dates from 1980, which on the evidence
of that, “Duke’s Travels/Duke’s End” (so unbelievably awesome live that it
beggars description – from my fan’s point of view, admittedly), and “Deep In
The Motherlode,” was a good year for the group.
As for those studio tracks, I’m generally more positive than you on them.
Some are pointless (the 12” remixes: why? WHY?), a few are offensively dumb
(“Hearts On Fire,” “I’d Rather Be You”), but most are super charming and
some are indeed better than many album cuts: imagine how much better Wind
And Wuthering would have been if “One For The Vine” and “All In A Mouse’s
Night” had been swapped out, respectively, for “Inside And Out” and
“Pigeons.” Of course you may dislike those two songs – you don’t say – but
I think that they’re two of the best on the set. “It’s Yourself” is 5 ½
minutes of breathtakingly gorgeous ambience that goes nowhere, has no
structure, and does just fine without it. It’s also the missing piece in
the A Trick Of The Tail jigsaw puzzle, as its ending is actually the
beginning of “Los Endos.”
But hey, your enjoyment of this set will be directly proportional to your
enjoyment of post-Gabriel Genesis. If you like that era like I do, you’ll
love it despite its obvious flaws (the worst: where is the fourth disc of
live material?); if you don’t, you’ll be a lot harsher.
rob kipp (rkipp.si.rr.com) (1/16/02)
The version of "Ripples" on this box set is from the tour supporting Duke in 1980, so Daryl Steurmer, not Steve Hackett, plays the guitar and the lead line. I must say, considering how Daryl usually modifies (and sometimes butchers) Steve's original solos, that on this one occasion he plays exactly what Steve plays, and because we can actually hear it clearly, it sounds spectacular. I also love Phil's voice, it sounds much better than the studio version.
This box set is for the completist only, but that doesn't mean the tracks are all bad. "On the Shoreline," in my opinion, is ten times better than anything released on I Can't Dance, but "Hearts on Fire" is pure garbage. "You Might Recall" is one of my favorite outtakes, I would have taken this song over "Whodunnit?" or "Like it or Not" from Abacab. Listening to the Abacab outtakes, I almost wish they would have released all the tracks as a double album as they had briefly envisioned.
Some of the live tracks are nice, and some are not. I never particularly cared for "Illegal Alien," and the live version sounds exactly like the studio version. All the 1980 live tracks are superb, I've always loved "Duke's Travels" and so it is nice to hear it live (did you catch Daryl playing some of Tony's lines on a guitar synthesizer? Pretty cool, huh?). "Your Own Special Way" sounds really good with the orchestra, and again, Phil's voice is much better suited to sing it in 1986 then it was in 1977.
I can't understand why "Match of the Day" and "Me & Virgil" were omitted (Well, I kind of can, they are not great songs, but they are better than "Hearts on Fire" and "I'd Rather Be You"), there was certainly enough room for them on three discs, and for the completist, the only Genesis contingent that will buy this box set, it would've been nice.
In conclusion, this one is not as essential as the first box set, but it's a better release than I Can't Dance or (ugh!) Calling All Stations...
Laurent Masse (masse.epoc.u-bordeaux.fr) (1/16/02)
Discovered Genesis through this set one year ago. And Ripples is the song
which amazed me so much I became a fan and bought everything since. What a
disappointment when first hearing the studio version on TOTT. But, this
live version!1980? This is not Hackett playing? And, You Might Recall,
though not impressive at first listen, is one of those melodies creeping
and sticking in my brain far more quickly than everything else on here.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (2/20/02)
Ah, I was hoping you would get this one. In some ways I like the first
one better: the live stuff is more interesting, and I was more anticipant
to hear rare cuts from the Gabriel era, but in some ways I like this one
better, just because there are 16 songs that I'd either never heard or
only had on record or mp3. And I really like almost all of these. I
think it also annoying that they didn't include "Me and Virgil." Why
not? They could have left off "I'd Rather Be You" or one of the remixes
for it. Also, there are only 2 out of the 3 songs from Spot the Pigeon,
and EP they released after Wind & Wuthering that is very hard to find. I
only found it on mp3, (of course it was readily available as an import at
Best Buy before I was in love with the band ::smacks himself on the
head:: ) But anyway, there is a ! song from that EP called "Match of
the Day" that is good; I can see how it might be heard as being slight,
but I think it sounds somewhat unique to anything else they've done, and
I like the way it's put together. Too bad it wasn't on here. My
favorites here are "Inside and Out" (from that EP), "Do the Neurotic"
(who knew they did stuff like that in the 80's?) all of the Abacab
outtakes. Of course, I think the trophy goes to "The Day the Light Went
Out." This song has made me realize why I love the production on ATTWT
so much: The soup-like, distant mix sets a cold atmosphere (sometimes it
actually makes you feel cold), but the closeness of Collins voice (that
reverb helping out a lot) warms you up, and the spirited playing really
gets me going thus warming even more, producing that Christmas season
feeling.
Riley Martin (Martin.Riley.lsc.gov.uk) (5/07/02)
I think it's fairly risible the way that the band have behaved towards
the fans and collectors with this one. There is no need to have pared
down some tracks to replace them with others. There should have been a
fourth CD. Certainly Match of the Day & Me & Virgil should have been
included. If the band themselves find these either embarrasing or naive
it is still no reason to deprive the collector of them on CD. Likewise,
there are different live versions of songs on some 12" singles that could
also have been included, particularly the soul medley version of Turn it
on Again and a version of Firth of Fifth where Daryl Steurmer's work
actually betters Steve Hackett's (and it's not often you'd get me to say
that). Also single 'b' sides and some live versions from the Ray Wilson
era (OK I know you hate it) could have been included to fill out the
fourth disc. All in all it is a lost opportunity to give the completists
what they wanted.
Trfesok.aol.com (12/05/06)
Pretty much in agreement here. My favorites are also the Hackett era
material, whether he actually appears on it or not. "Inside and Out"
is the best track, a lost classic. I would also bet that Rutherford
wrote the excellent lyrics, the guitar in the first part is gorgeous,
and you get a nice band jam at the end. "It's Yourself" reminds me,
of all things, of Yes's drifting "Awaken," but it sounds unfinished
to me. "Pigeons" is a stupid throwaway, however.
The rest shows the group fully in pop mode. "Vancouver" has some very
poignant lyrics from Collins (about a daughter, maybe?), but they're
hard to hear, as was fairly often the case in the late 70's. Some of
them are more stripped down than the actual album tracks (like "I'd
Rather Be You" -- notice how it rips off the "You Can't Hurry Love"
bassline?). The WCD outtakes are pretty much garbage. I do like the
"Land of Confusion" remix, but that's because it was good song in the
first place. 11+ minutes of "Tonight, Tonight, Tonight," however, is
totally unnecessary. "No Reply at All" does sound dopey with Collins'
interjected swearing and without the horns, but I can pretty much
take or leave the post-1980 live stuff. As for "Illegal Alien" --
listening to this again makes me wonder how the hell they managed to
get away with releasing it in the first place, particularly as a
single. The lyrics and Collins' stereotypical Speedy Gonsalez accent
are truly offensive. And the video, with the group in mustaches,
sombreros and slicked back hair, is even worse. How did they NOT
catch any heat from Latino groups? Since I'm adopting a Hispanic son
shortly, I don't think this song will get any more play in my house.
Best song: Congo or Alien Afternoon
Ugh. I originally gave this album a lower grade, but many years later I looked back and wondered if perhaps I'd been unduly harsh
on the album. I proceeded to give this album many super-intense listens, in the hopes of perhaps rectifying a serious wrong
by sucking up every positive detail I could about the album. And yet, for all of that effort, the best I can do is boost
this to a 3, and I still find myself wondering if it even deserves that grade. What a terrible album this is.
The story of this album began when Phil, finally realizing that he really had no reason to keep up his involvement in
Genesis, formally announced his departure in 1996, though he left the door open to work in the context of the band in future
projects. He probably assumed that Mike and Tony would just let the band go and not do something like, say, hire a younger
replacement and go back into the studio. But, I guess Mike and Tony felt they had something to prove: after all, they had
been the core of Genesis since the very beginning, and between them they'd written the bulk of the music in the band's
history. Just for that, they certainly had as much right to do what they wanted under the banner of Genesis as Phil did.
Plus, Mike and Tony had clearly developed some remorse for the direction the band had taken the last while, because CAS is a
much more serious, art-rock-based album (though with a good amount of pop elements thrown in) than the band had done in a
very long time. The new vocalist mentioned from before, Ray Wilson, came from a neo-prog band called Stiltskin, and both of
the drummers used on the album had prog-rock pedigrees of their own (supposedly Chester Thompson wanted to finally become
the band's studio drummer, but he was turned down, much to his chagrin). The path was now clear for Mike and Tony to make
the kind of album that they really wanted to make, without having to bend their wills to Phil's increasingly schlocky ideas.
At first glance, on paper, this situation doesn't seem like it should be the breeding ground for such a terrible album as
this one turned out to be, but closer inspection makes it seem like this should have been expected all along. Tony and Mike
might have had a long history as the core of the band, but by 1997, Invisible Touch was more than a decade old, and that had
been the last time they'd been dominant contributors to Genesis. Plus, for all of the random artsy-fartsy trappings they'd
thrown into their albums, how long had it been since they'd made an album that was predominantly art-rock? You'd have to go
back at least to And Then There Were Three, and probably to Wind and Wuthering, to find a Genesis album that has as much of
an art-rock base as this one does, and that had basically been two decades. They probably really thought that they could
just pick things back up again from where they left off, but that's an awfully long period for artistic muscles to atrophy,
and it probably wasn't reasonable on their parts to assume that they could get back into the swing of things this easily.
When you come down to it, this album has three significant problems: it's unfortunate that those three problems are the
vocals, the lyrics, and the music. An elaboration of each now follows:
The vocals: In prepping the world for this album, Tony Banks made a comment that Ray Wilson, in terms of vocal style,
reminded him a bit of Peter Gabriel, and I do admit that I can hear it a bit in that Ray has a bit of the same hoarse
"smokiness" that Peter did. I've actually heard recordings of Ray doing some of Genesis' older material, and he doesn't
sound terrible, so I know that just calling him a bad vocalist is probably an overstatement. On this album, though, he shows
a crippling inability or unwillingness to vary the tone and mood of his voice, and it gets on my nerves pretty quickly. I'll
say it again: Genesis music (especially music written by Tony and Mike) is very dependent on effective vocal performance,
requiring interesting shifts in mood and tone, and the kind of singing done on most of this album is simply not going to cut
it for music written by them. Plus, there are some moments where I really have to wonder if the part I'm listening to was
really the best available take: listen to the way Ray's voice weakens at the end of the verses, before the chorus, in If
That's What You Need, and tell me you don't come away unimpressed.
The lyrics: I get that Tony and Mike wanted to write lyrics that were more mature and more serious than what had dominated
the last albums, I do. My issue is that the "maturity" of this album takes a form that I find incredibly obvious and hackish.
Pretty much every song on this album is about regret at decisions made in life (basically continuations of Fading Lights),
or about failed relationships, or of unhappiness at the passage of time and the loss of youth, or similar things. It further
hurts that these topics are mostly handled in straightforward, didactic manners, with only limited use of metaphor of
lighthearted moments to spice things up a bit. I'm fine with creating a centralized mood through a consistent lyrical theme,
but I don't want to feel like I'm listening to the middle-age equivalent of bad teenage poetry when I put on an album. For
all of the faults of WCD, that album had Jesus He Knows Me and I Can't Dance to throw off the monotony, and such diversions
are badly wanted here.
The music: Monotonous vocals and dull, oppressive lyrics are one thing, but they're made all the worse when combined with
dull, oppressive music. As expected, the dominant instrument on this album is Tony's keyboards, and they're much more
focused on setting a big important mood than on doing anything especially interesting. There are a lot of passages that are
based around keyboard solos, but those solos are generally duller than anything Tony had done before, and they don't do the
album any favors. Mike's guitars vary between uninspired acoustic playing, bits of playing reminsicient of his 80's style,
and even some horrific moments where he decides to try and pull off something resembling grunge (grungey guitars and
BANKSYNTHS??!!!). Except for parts of the last couple of minutes of the last track, the tempos never take a step beyond mid-tempo, and this goes a long way to making the album a pain to listen to. And finally, the drums mostly plod along in a
simplistic way, except for a few "artsier" moments where they clang aggressively and make a racket, without much good
effect.
Amidst all of the badness of the album, I have to admit there's a three-track bit near the beginning that, had it been
released as a separate EP, would have at least mustered a mediocre grade. Congo, if nothing else, has that 40-second
introduction, featuring a latin-style instrumental passage that differs from everything else on the album. Plus, it has a
chorus that's memorable without being gross, and those two features combined are enough to make me forgive the fact that the
rest of the song has the same arrangement problems as the rest of the album (that rising synth line in the chorus is just
really tacky). Shipwrecked wouldn't have been one of the best tracks on WCD, but it wouldn't have been one of the worst either,
and there's something kinda sweet about the chorus and the accompanying synth line (the verses are forgettable, but hey, I'm
trying to be positive here). And finally, Alien Afternoon is really the one instance on the album where a lengthy piece
follows the Genesis tradition of lengthy songs that actually have multiple decent ideas and that bother to go somewhere.
It's nothing spectactular, but I genuinely enjoy moments like the "gotta get to work on time" lines in the first half (with
a decently busy bass-and-drum pattern chugging in the background), and the encoded "we are home" backing vocals in the
second half actually work as a nice enough emotional climax. It might not be a diamond in the rough, but it sure isn't dirt,
either.
The other eight songs, though, are abysmal. A few of them have decent enough ideas, but the main problem is that they all
feel like they'd do better belonging to other songs. Uncertain Weather, for instance, has a nice enough emotional climax in
the "long agoooooooooooo ...." vocal lines, but there's not really any kind of build up to it to justify it, and certainly
nothing especially interesting in the rest of the song. Dividing Line has a decent enough synth-line (similar to the kind of
synth line you'd find on Abacab), but it's certainly not enough to carry the overblown, noisy tunelessness of a track that
lasts almost eight minutes. Oh, and the very end of One Man's Fool, the aforementioned last track, does have a nice bit of
exhiliration to it; too bad the rest of the track doesn't.
The rest of the album is irredeemable. The title track is so bad that I find it fascinating: the combination of the synths
(set on "shock and awe" mode), and the metallic guitar sounds, and the plodding drums, and the rambling, virtually non-existent vocal melody, and the uninteresting vocal tone, and the whiny lyrics about regretting decisions made in life, make
it almost seem like an experiment in creating the kind of song I'd be guaranteed to hate. If That's What You Need would have
been on the bottom-rung of the WCD ballads, while Not About Us would have better belonged to any one of a thousand generic "alternative" bands. Small Talk almost sounds like Genesis trying to make a song in the mode of something the Backstreet Boys would have attempted, except with terrible keyboard parts splattered everywhere, and it's probably the worst Genesis song ever. And finally, There Must Be Some Other Way is just a giant eight-minute bombastic bore.
So ok, this isn't the worst album ever made, and I can name more than a few parts I like. The bad parts are so overpowering,
though, that I really can't get myself to care about the good ones much. Besides, when you get down to this part of the
scale, the difference between consecutive grades mostly comes down to little things, and despite the larger grade I can't
say my fundamental opinion of the album has changed. Some Genesis fans have bought into this, but I really don't see myself
joining that school of thought any time soon.
Chris Stacey (staceyclan.yahoo.co.uk) (12/15/01)
You see it's all your ego again.
The fact that you think Congo is the best song shows
you know f.. all about Genesis
(author's note): On the contrary, the fact that you think that any other song on CaS is worth even remotely praising shows that, in fact, it is YOU who knows f... all about Genesis.
Ah, productive and intellectually stimulating comments, how I love them so.
TheRubberCow.aol.com (1/08/02)
This album definately has it's problems, maybe not quite deserving of a
1, though. Basically, I think the lyrics are decidedly the worst ever
found on a Genesis album, and much of the playing is stiff and
uninspired, but the thing that brings some of it out of the mud is Ray
Wilson's voice. Not to say that he's as good as Gabriel, but I'd much
rather hear him than the annoyingly nasal way Phil was singing on We
Can't Dance. He may not be the most expressive, but consider what he had
to work with; he actually holds my interest and makes me want to listen
to what he's saying, the laughable lyrics and so-so melodies. And that
brings us to the only real problems I have with your review. You said
that the title track has no discernable melody. I have been noticing
for some time that many reviewers have been over-using their claims of
"no melody." I don't know...someone gave me the piano/vocal trascript
book for this album (for some reason) and it definately looks like a
moving melody to me, a lot more-so than the other songs. Of course, I
knew that before seeing it...always heard it as a nice, slow building,
emotional one. No melody to me is more like U2's "Numb." But anyway,
the album has it's problems, but like you said, there are a few moments
here and there, and it sounds like I get into it a little more than you
do, although I'm not sure yet what rating I'd give it. By the way, I
think if Phil Collins left after realizing he didn't need Genesis to be
succesful anymore, he would have done it a looooong time ago.
Daniel and Corine Bosch (dcbosch.optusnet.com.au) (6/25/02)
I'm afraid this album comes under the category of "Why bother?"!! Ray
wilson is no Phil Collins - and Phil was no Peter Gabriel, so we can see
a problem here. Also, note to Tony and Mike (who should know better) -
"long" doesn't equal "prog", let alone "classic Genesis"!!! Most of this
album is very boring, I think I have listened to it all the way through
twice, and have tried some other times but failed! I'll be generous and
give it 2.5 out of 10.
Trfesok.aol.com (2/11/04)
Ah, the proverbial black sheep of the family of Genesis albums. I don't
think it quite deserves all of the abuse that it gets, although I
wouldn't say that it's great, either.
By the time of WCD, I was pretty sick of the ubiquitous Phil -- his
annoying voice; the overuse of those booming drums and drum machines
which had gotten very cliched; and most, of all, his sickening, wimpy
ballads like "Throwing it All Away" and (double yuck) "In Too Deep." I
thought the change to a tougher, darker direction was promising.
The main problem, though, is that Tony and Mike didn't really come up
with anything original to replace all of this. Mike's guitar was always
very generic, and Tony doesn't really come up with any really creative
keyboard work. (except, as you said, on "The Dividing Line"). It's almost
like he wasn't even there most of the time. The session drummers sound
like, well, session drummers. As for Ray Wilson -- well, I will say that
he takes an unfair share of the blame here. I don't get the charge of
"whiny." He has a decent, competent voice. But he doesn't sound like
Pete, or Phil. He actually sounds closer to Paul Carrack or Paul Young of
Mike and the Mechanics. In other words, he could be anybody. The overall
sound, therefore, comes off like a somewhat more complex version of a
Mike and the Mechanics album. Competent, tasteful, and utterly
indistinguishable from a lot of other bands. Which wouldn't be a problem
if it actually came out under the Mechanics banner, but it was released
as a Genesis album, with all of the expectations that carried. It
certainly doesn't meet those.
The other major problem is that the somber mood is absolutely
unrelenting. Even the weakest Genesis albums had some variety. Here, all
of the songs seem to be about relationships that are about to end or are
over. An hour of this is pretty tough to take. Combine this with a lack
of really commercial melodies and you get an album that is not
unlistenable, but really only for the dedicated. It's no wonder that it
was an American sales disaster. It's gone out of print, which suggests
that Genesis would like to pretend that it never existed. Too bad --
it isn't anything to be really ashamed of (like, for example, Elton
John's Victim of Love). Just a failed experiment with a new sound.
Daniel Bosch (bicycle_legs.optusnet.com.au) (10/13/07)
Update - I still think this album is the weakest thing done under the
Genesis name, but I have had a change of heart about Ray Wilson -
based on a bootleg DVD of this lineup live. Ray's voice was actually
very suitable, having its own tone but also echoes of both Peter and
Phil. Given stronger material (and some of the material WAS stronger
live), this lineup could have worked. I would have liked to see them
try one more album with Ray and some better songs. Still 2.5 out of
10, but with potential...
Nicholas Lecchi (nikilecchi.gmail.com) (03/13/12)
While I don’t hate this album as much as you or George Starostin does, I do agree that’s it’s far and away the worst album that
Genesis has released. Ray Wilson’s voice is by no means bad but most of his singing on the album is quite unexpressive. However, as
a previous poster pointed out, the material itself wasn’t the best to start with. I think my main gripe with this album is the
atmosphere itself though. Listening to it, I get the notion that Mike and Tony were attempting to do what The Cure had been able to
do on Disintegration (I.E: Bridging the gap between their older work and their pop work). Unfortunately, Mike and Tony were nowhere
near as successful as Robert Smith in this regard, and when you couple this dull atmosphere with some absolutely horrendous lyrics
(Serious Tony rhyming sharing with caring?, and rhyming together with forever?) you get an absolute snore fest of an album.
Best song: Ripples or Los Endos
Genesis' 2007 reunion tour might have been driven solely by crass commercialism, but I'm still glad it and the ensuing live album happened. When rumors of a reunion including Gabriel and Hackett fell through, leaving only the "pop" lineup of Genesis, I (I'm sure this was the case for many others as well) figured it was just going to be a straight continuation of the Way We Walk tour. I figured the band would continue to distort its full history as presented in its live concerts, playing down the existence of pre-Touch material, and that the show would be a gaudy, artistically bankrupt disaster.
I'm glad I was wrong. The setlist does draw heavily from Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance, but this is definitely not a sequel to the Live: The Way We Walk albums. If anything, this is an amalgamation of all of the Collins-era live releases thus far: Seconds Out, Three Sides Live, Live: The Way We Walk and Archive 2. The band makes some of the same mistakes found on those albums, like Collins trying to ham up I Know What I Like In Your Wardrobe, or Steurmer's awkward attempts to add his own generic flavor to the Firth of Fifth solo, but the flaws somehow don't irritate me as much this time around. Furthermore, the album sounds WAY less crass than the Way We Walk albums ever did. It's hard to quite fathom it in the 2000's and beyond, but the Way We Walk albums came out when one of the biggest pop stars in the world was a short, balding ex-drummer (who would occasionally play to rev up the crowd) who really liked cheese in his songs. The band's "artsy" past was clearly something Phil wanted less and less to do with over time, and he (and therefore the band) handled it extremely carelessly by the end (remember the Old Medley?). The band's acknowledgement of the majority of its back catalogue was token at best by 1991, and since all of the fans were there solely to hear the newest stuff, nobody really cared.
Then came the backlash. Collins left Genesis because he didn't need them anymore, but sometime after he did the Tarzan soundtrack and performed in the Super Bowl halftime show, the world largely stopped caring about Phil Collins. On top of that, prog rock started to work its way back into, if not popularity, then at least marginal acceptance by an ever-increasing number of people. Along these lines, Genesis' overall fanbase inevitably kept shrinking (as those who had come on board in 1986 and 1991 fell off and found other interests), but the number of fans of the Gabriel-era (and also of the '76-'83 Collins era) kept slowly creeping upwards. In short, by 2007, the best way for Genesis to make money as a touring unit was not to treat its past as something to be held at arm's length.
Except for the strange omission of anything from Abacab, every album from England to Dance is represented by at least one song. Amazingly enough, for all of the potential landmines in the band's discography, there are only two songs that I'd gladly do without; Invisible Touch and Hold On My Heart, both of which I have always hated and always will hate. I do still find Afterglow more than a little tacky, but after having listened to it several dozen times in my life, I've finally come to a point where I don't hate it, and I'm happy to hear it on this album. The rest of the setlist, then, is freaking great (by the standards of what I could expect from the band at this point, anyway). The band draws heavily from Duke in the early portion of the show; the opening track is the beginning of Behind the Lines coupled with Duke's End, the first song with vocals is Turn It On Again, and a chunk of Duke's Travels pops up later during the In The Cage/Cinema Show medley (yes! They brought it back!) that segues into Afterglow. The band also brings out Trick of the Tail material in the second disc, and both steal the show. Ripples isn't quite as good as the Archive 2 version, mainly because Collins' vocals are much thinner and more worn out than in 1980, but it's close, as Steurmer once again makes the guitar parts as beautiful as they always should have been in the original. Then, a few tracks later, after a surprisingly listenable drum duet, the band breaks into Los Endos, which once again sounds even better live than it did in the studio (it's always been one of my favorites on Seconds Out). I didn't bother to go see the tour when it came through Chicago, but I wish I had if only to hear the moment when Rutherford brings out the Dance on a Volcano guitar line and Banks rises up with his synths.
The Gabriel-era material is represented by I Know What I Like, the middle portion of Firth of Fifth, the In the Cage medley, and a surprising show closer: The Carpet Crawlers! I actually far prefer this version to the one from Seconds Out, mainly because Phil's lower register feels a lot more natural here than it did there, and because sticking it at the end gives the show a "reverent" vibe that it wouldn't have had with another track finishing things off.
Elsewhere, we have Follow You Follow Me (great!) from Three, Mama (with weaker vocals than before but some of the best of this show) and Home by the Sea/Second Home by the Sea from Genesis, and of course a lot of the obligatory Touch/Dance material. Touch is represented by the title track (prefaced by a shortened Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, just as it was on Way We Walk), Land of Confusion, Throwing it All Away (which still has a tacky crowd-working vocal introduction), and a rousing version of Domino. I've never been able to figure out how Phil felt about singing a song like Domino, but my gut tells me it was part of a tradeoff with Tony to get Hold On My Heart into the setlist. No matter, Phil gives it just as good of a whirl as he did in tours past. And finally, aside from the horrid Hold On My Heart, Dance is represented by No Son of Mine (extremely moving here) and I Can't Dance, a song I like but which should have been left in the can. Nowhere else on the album are the ravages of time on Phil's vocals better shown then when he yelps the "*I*" in "I Can't Dance," when before that was one of the last remnants of him bothering to put any kind of rasp in his voice. I guess it was obligatory, but meh; couldn't he have done That's All instead? Or how about Abacab?
All reservations aside (aside from what I mentioned already, Tony's keys sound REALLY cheezy in some places; if I can call Rick Wakeman on having excessively cheezy synth tones in his old age, why can't I call Tony on it?), this album is a lot of fun if you like Collins-era Genesis, which I basically do. Don't spend full price on it, but don't avoid it forever, either.
Selling England 10(15)
The Lamb 7(11)
And Then There Were Three 8(11)
Duke 6(10)
Abacab 8(12)
Genesis 8(13)
Invisible Touch 10(14)
Steve
From Genesis To Revelation - 1969 Columbia
A
(Very Good / Good)
Trespass - 1970 MCA
A
(Very Good / Good)
Nursery Cryme - 1971 Atco
B
(Very Good)
Foxtrot - 1972 Atco
D
(Great / Very Good)
Frank
Genesis Live - 1973 Atco
D
(Great / Very Good)
*Selling England By The Pound - 1973 Atco*
10
(Olympian)
It certainly wouldn't sound of place on the first two post-Gabriel
albums, although the vocals are more audible here than they are
there.
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway - 1974 Atlantic
D
(Great / Very Good)
Fly On a Windshield
Broadway Melody Of 1974
Cuckoo Cocoon
In The Cage
The Grand Parade Of Lifeless Packaging
Anyway
Hairless Heart
Counting Out Time
Carpet Crawlers
The Chamber of 32 Doors
The Colony Of Slippermen (A Visit To The Doktor/Raven)
The Light Dies Down On Broadway
Genesis Archive 1967-75 - 1998 Genesis
C
(Very Good / Great)
[Live stuff overall: 10 out of 10 (Why not? Very strong stuff); live Lamb
itself: solid 9 out of 10 (some parts still drag, but not as much!) Entire box
set: low 9 out of 10 (due to the non-live stuff...)]
1. besides Firth and Moonlit Knight, Steve also re-recorded the Windshield solo
2. it is likely that Tony re-recorded some of the keyboard parts (as noted in the Genesis Live Guide)
Happy The Man is a different edit/mix from the UK single (no vocals over intro). Probably this is the version released on the Charisma
compilation "One More Chance". (The "1970-1975" box set contains the single mix - I don't know which one is on the two-disc best-of).
A Trick Of The Tail - 1976 Atco
B
(Very Good)
- 8 songs on both albums
- "Dance on a Volcano" / "Dancing with the Moonlit
Knight" Saga
- "Squonk" / "I Know What I Like" witty, catchy
poppish song
- "Battle of Epping Forest" / "Robbery, Assault &
Battery" war story
- "Aisle of Plenty" / "Los Endos"
reprise of first theme (less obvious on "Los Endos," but it's
there)
Wind and Wuthering - 1976 Atco
7
(Mediocre / Good)
Second's Out - 1977 Atco
8
(Good / Mediocre)
Robber Assualt & Battery - keyboard solo Phil
Firth of Fifth - Phil and Chester...
....Cinema Show - Bill Bruford, Phil keyboard solo
Los Endos - Phil and Chester
... And Then There Were Three ... - 1978 Atco
7
(Mediocre / Good)
Duke - 1980 Atco
A
(Very Good / Good)
Abacab - 1981 Atco
B
(Very Good)
Three Sides Live - 1982 Atco
9
(Good)
Genesis - 1983 Atco
C
(Very Good / Great)
Invisible Touch - 1986 Atco
7
(Mediocre / Good)
We Can't Dance - 1991 Atco
4
(Bad / Mediocre)
Live The Way We Walk - The Shorts - 1993 Atco
6
(Mediocre)
Live The Way We Walk - The Longs - 1993 Atco
6
(Mediocre)
Genesis Archive 1976-92 - 2000 Genesis
A
(Very Good / Good)
Calling All Stations - 1997 Atco
3
(Bad)
Live Over Europe 2007 - 2007 Atlantic
9
(Good)